AgVic Talk Season 10

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

It's claimed that one in every three mouthfuls of food involves a bee. They're crucial to the agricultural sector, so in 2022 it was devastating when bee-killing Varroa mites were first detected in Australia. G’day, I'm Drew Radford and that discovery saw a huge loss of hives, inflicting considerable financial and mental health stress on apiarists. One of those was Mike Allerton, who describes himself as an obsessed recreational beekeeper. To discuss his experience and how he got through it, he joins me for this AgVic Talk podcast. Hello, Mike.

Mike Allerton:

How are you doing?

Drew Radford:

I'm great, thanks, Mike. Now, Mike, I like the title that you refer to yourself as a recreational beekeeper, but I've got a suspicion you got a few hives.

Mike Allerton:

To be honest, I did have quite a few hives, but Varroa sorted that out. I was working on about between 15 and 20 hives or so and selling my excess honey, about 500 to 700 kilograms a year.

Drew Radford:

That's a reasonable amount of honey to be producing. It's not just one hive in the back.

Mike Allerton:

No, it's not. I guess when I first started, I was getting maybe 20 kilograms, and as you get more obsessed and you get more hives, you just land up producing more. Some seasons it wasn't so good, you'd have a bit of a dearthy, not so good floral sources, and in a good year I can pull in 700 kilos.

Drew Radford:

And you've been pretty busy learning as much as you possibly can about bees. Because I understand you’re now a certified master beekeeper.

Mike Allerton:

Yeah, that's right. During COVID and wanting to learn more, I found the University of Florida in the U.S. runs an online Master Beekeeper program and that's divided into four sections. The apprentice, the advanced, the master, and I'm currently doing the Master Craftsman level, which is like a mini-PhD where I have to do a research project.

Drew Radford:

That's quite of involvement. And you're also involved in a number of professional bodies in the apiary sector as well?

Mike Allerton:

That's right. I'm Secretary and Biosecurity Officer of the Amateur Beekeepers Australia Association. That's an association of about 40 clubs around New South Wales, Queensland and Northern Territory, and I'm also the President of my local club at the Hawkesbury Beekeepers.

Drew Radford:

Under that umbrella of your biosecurity responsibility, you would've had a fairly firm focus on the threat of Varroa entering into the country?

Mike Allerton:

Absolutely. Very heavily involved. I personally got involved with the Varroa response in the eradication part of the phase. Unfortunately, I was involved with the killing of many hundreds of hives in the hopes that eradication would be successful. And I also had a lot to do with other club members and getting them on board to join in the program. And I also help support a lot of the beekeepers in education, but also just getting them through the rough time. A lot of beekeepers don't want to talk to somebody outside of the beekeeping world, so I get a lot of phone calls from people asking for help.

Drew Radford:

Well, supporting them, but also supporting yourself because it hit you as well.

Mike Allerton:

It did, yes. Eventually it got me, it was inevitable. Varroa came to my area about 12 months before I was hit with it. Friends of mine, also fellow club members within two kilometres of where I am, by the way the bee flies, and they had heavy mite loads for maybe eight months before I got my first detection, so it was only a matter of time. And then about this time last year in, well, bees start spring earlier than the calendar does, and in August last year I got my first detection.

Drew Radford:

That must've been a period of impending doom for you, Mike. That can't have been a pleasant experience at all.

Mike Allerton:

It was not at all. I thought I had myself prepared for it because I'd been helping out a lot of other people and I thought I had my plan on what I would do and my plan was to avoid chemicals if I could, and I ordered a hypothermia machine and I was ready to treat with the hypothermia machine, which meant no chemicals. Unfortunately, it didn't turn up in time and I tried to stall the chemicals as long as possible by doing a rather brutal version of brood removal and each frame of capped brood I removed took out 7,000 cells that had mites in them, but it also had 7,000 potential bees and I was killing those, so I was freezing them and disposing of them. It worked. It kept the mite loads below threshold for a couple of months and then I had to work away from home for an extended period, six weeks away and by the time I got back, I came back to all my hives slimed out.

Drew Radford:

How did you feel when you came back and saw that?

Mike Allerton:

Oh, I was totally gutted. It was the worst feeling and I guess in a sense you go through those five stages of grief that people talk about. I initially denied it happening and then I got angry with myself, but I had to face the reality and I had to clean up that big mess and it took me two days. When I said slimed-out, it was small hive beetles sliming out, but the reason the small hive beetle got control was the Varroa had weakened the colonies that much. Now, I completely blame myself, as a beekeeper it was my fault. If I'd been a better beekeeper, I would've bitten the bullet and put in chemical strips for the period that I was away from and I'd come back to living bees and in a way, I'm still a bit angry at myself because of that, but life goes on, this is the next season and I'm rebuilding and being a much better manager in the process.

Drew Radford:

I can hear the frustration and emotion in your voice. This is more than just production though, isn't it? I mean, people looking at it go, "Yeah, it's a bee," but it was tens and tens of thousands of bees that you had cared and nurtured for.

Mike Allerton:

Yeah, that's right. In the recreational field, a lot of the guys I know treat their bees as if they're family members and me too. They're my kids. And yeah, it is emotional and when you lose those in each hive, there's 20, 30, 40,000 bees, but each beehive has its own personality. The hive itself, that whole colony is an organism. Some people call it a super organism, and it's that organism that has the personality and they get to know you as a beekeeper and some of them are angrier than others and others are just beautifully gentle and some of them, when they sting you, it doesn't even hurt. I could go on and on, but it is a huge loss. I would equate it to normal people having a pet dog or a cat and something happens to their dog. That's how it feels with the colony of bees, and I lost 12 of them in a hit.

Drew Radford:

That's a significant loss. You were supporting others. What happened at that point? Did that flip?

Mike Allerton:

Yeah, interestingly, I told my story at my local bee club meeting and I was quite moved. That help was right there and they acknowledged that I'd been helping them through theirs and I got it returned. I didn't really expect it. I wasn't looking for it. I was just telling my story so that people would know what was ahead of them or what could be ahead of them, and straight away I had one of the members said, "Well, I've got a nuc that you can get started with again," and straight away, so I was back underway pretty much immediately.

Drew Radford:

Beyond that particular cohort, was there other support available?

Mike Allerton:

Yeah, the response, the National Varroa Response, provides sort of the equivalent to lifeline, but there's also those facilities available and during the response, those support services were regularly advertised and I'm sure a lot of beekeepers used them. In my experience, most of the beekeepers that I talked to didn't want to pick up the phone and talk to those people, they just wanted to talk to another beekeeper. Sort of, in their perception ,they'd be more understanding and that's where I certainly offered a lot of support that way and I guess I got my best support from talking to other beekeepers about it.

Drew Radford:

That's a wonderful peer support network. What would you say to other farmers who might be going through a similar experience, but are hesitant to speak up or seek help?

Mike Allerton:

Yeah, I can completely understand their perspective and in some ways they might be feeling as though there've been some sort of failure. I would tell anyone if they're having some sort of loss like that, and this applies across the farm. If a cattle farmer's having a problem with his cows and they're just dropping like flies or something's gone wrong, don't wear it on your own. There's no need to. There's no shame in asking for help, be it from other farmers, your mates, and then I've talked to other beekeepers that did pick up the phone and talk to an online counsellor.

Those guys are really good. They know what they're doing and they can get them through the rough patch and on the path to feeling stable in the head and getting on with life because the worst thing you can do is deny that there's something going wrong and you're wasting your time being angry about it. The sooner you get past that, the better. And the sooner you can work your way to accepting your position, you can get mentally in order to then move on and take the steps that you need to recover from it.

Drew Radford:

That's fantastic advice, Mike, and very honest and upfront of you. Mike, what lessons have you learned from this experience that you'd want others to know?

Mike Allerton:

From this personal experience on the bee side and going to the workshops, and I actually was involved in teaching the Varroa workshops during the response and one of the things we said integrated pest management, and in that triangle or the pyramid they call it, the bit at the top is chemical treatments, and as I said earlier, I wanted to avoid that. Well, that's actually integrated pest management in action is you want to go to those chemical options as a last resort and in this heavy reinfestation phase when all of those feral colonies and unmanaged colonies are collapsing left, right and centre and becoming big breeding bombs for mites and small hive beetles, you're just going to have to go to that chemical response sooner than you would prefer, and that's what I've done and that's what I'm doing to keep my bees alive until things level out down the track.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like the response though is also enabling you to rebuild despite the fact that you are using chemicals that you don't want to.

Mike Allerton:

Yeah. I'm still, managed to avoid using synthetic chemicals. They're the ones that potentially leave residuals in the wax and potentially in the honey. So, I've not had to use that, so far I've used organic chemicals as an adjunct to the hypothermia treatment that I've been using with good success, but all the time I have those synthetic chemicals ready to use if I have to. I'm not going to risk losing my bees again. There's people out there that want to be treatment free and I wish them every bit of luck in getting that through. It does work overseas, but in overseas situations the Varroa level's quite stable, whereas we're in a really high reinfestation period. It could take three or four, maybe five years for things to level out and then those treatment free practices could work, but one of their philosophies is let everything die and breed from whatever survives, and I can't see that working in Australia.

Drew Radford:

Are there any other resources or tools that made a big difference for you during this time?

Mike Allerton:

One thing I haven't mentioned is the National Varroa Response web page. There's a ton of really good information on there, and there's also a link to, I think the New South Wales DPI set up an online treatment tool and it just asks you a bunch of questions specific to your conditions and at the end of it will give you the options that you could use as far as chemical treatments go, whether it's non-synthetic chemicals or synthetics, if you're happy to deal with it, it asks questions, "What did you use last time and so on?" It makes the decision process so much easier. The biggest challenge a lot of people has is there's so many options. There's so many moving parts. How can you possibly make a decision to what to do right now and that online tool is massively helpful.

Drew Radford:

Mike, when you saw what had happened to your hives, what gave you hope or motivation to keep going despite the challenges, Varroa is not going away?

Mike Allerton:

Well, no, Varroa is not going away, and some of our club members gave up bees. They're not touching bees again, they just don't want to face the challenge, but they keep native bees and they still come to the club and get involved with the club apiary, which is great. Now what motivates me is my wife's uncle in Slovenia is in his 80s and he keeps 16 hives and he's been dealing with Varroa for decades. If he can do it, I can do it, and so it's just another challenge. 25 years ago, we first got small hive beetle and some people were panic struck and gave up bees and got out of the game, but the rest of them carried on and we deal with it.

Now we've sort of got this new challenge where it's Varroa plus small hive beetle, but we can deal with it. Humans are clever and beekeepers, we will work it out and I encourage everyone just to think and get into it and you'll come out the other side in another three, four or five years, when the Varroa levels stabilise, it'll be pretty much stock standard beekeeping with one more pest to deal with.

Drew Radford:

Mike Allerton has been through the worst of the Varroa mite infestation and it's people like Jamie Perry-Meijer who helped apiarists like him cope with it. Jamie comes from a background of supporting primary producers after disasters like floods and fires. He now works as Resilience Officer for the National Varroa Mite Management Program.

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

I joined in the time of the emergency response when we were conducting the eradication in New South Wales, and a lot of the beekeepers at that time were struggling both with how the process was going and a lot of recreational beekeepers at the time had their hives for mental health and to lose that was pretty devastating for those. And then on the commercial side, it was a lot of those beekeepers were losing quite a huge number of their hives, which translate into income changes and different ways of looking at things.

Drew Radford:

Interestingly, you made the point about the hobbyists there and how it came about for some of them during COVID, quite a connection between beekeepers and their hives.

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

There is, absolutely. One of the strong points I found during the last few years is that given the intricacies of hives. Sitting out there in the afternoon with a cup of tea or a cup of coffee after a stressful day of work and just watching the bees do their thing was so impactful to their mental health wellbeing and just an ultimate way to de-stress from the day and to have lost that was pretty hard.

Drew Radford:

How did the shift from eradication to management affect beekeepers emotionally, financially and practically?

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

Financially, there's been some losses from the destroyed hives to the added costs of treatments, gear, time off work, just their whole way of running their business has changed, but it also affects them emotionally because especially for the recreations with the implementation of chemicals, "Are we going to harm our bees? Are we doing the right thing? Do we have the backing to be successful?" It's not just about learning techniques. It's about helping the beekeepers adjust, recover, and then find the confidence in this new landscape that also includes Varroa successfully and knowing that they do have the skills to succeed.

Drew Radford:

Jamie, you also have another card up your sleeve in terms of you are an accredited mental health first-aider, which I imagine would've been very important during this and still important, so what kinds of mental health and wellbeing impacts have you been seeing among beekeepers affected by Varroa?

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

It's just more their mental mind capacity, whether they can do it. Are we going to come in and do an eradication again, especially with it changes to different states and they've detected Varroa? What sort of impacts is this going to have? Because the eradication process was quite challenging. It was quite in your face, and it's just going through all those processes with them, just building the confidence to say, "We're not going to eradicate again. We're just going to help you manage, show you the ways to treat and try to be successful."

Drew Radford:

Jamie, you're dealing with people that have been through quite a traumatic experience watching their hives often being destroyed and their livelihoods diminished. These are people that are probably going to need some support to get over that. The difficult part often is initiating those conversations. How do you go about it?

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

Openly discussing mental health and wellbeing is one of the most toughest topics. A lot of the referrals to contacts, somebody has come through another beekeeper who I may have already assisted or they can see that somebody else is struggling. Generally, I'd start a conversation and ask questions. "How are they coping with the incursion of Varroa?" That's usually a good door to open up to them feeling that they're in a good space, that they can talk to you about what's going on in their mind. We are slowly whittling away one primary producer at a time. It is becoming more common now that the farmers are willing to talk.

It's just getting that first step over the door and it's usually from a referral from somebody else, or I also do monthly wellbeing EDMs. I'm getting a good connection to people who will contact me through that just from reading an article and thinking, "Oh, that relates to me," so it's just getting as much information out there online as possible and through the networks to say, "It's okay, you can talk. It's not going to go any further. What do you need? We just want to help you succeed."

Drew Radford:

Jamie, what advice would you give to beekeepers that have detected Varroa mite and are feeling overwhelmed?

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

Reach out. Best thing you can do is find your community like fellow beekeepers, local clubs. You'll quickly realise that you're not the only person who's feeling the same way. A simple chat with a fellow beekeeper goes a long way to unpacking your concerns and working towards a solution.

Drew Radford:

Jamie, you've alluded to a number of resources that beekeepers can refer to. Is there anything else that they should consider?

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

Find your local club. If you're a commercial, find your industry. Talk to other people. You can also access the resources at varroa.org.au. We have created a Varroa website for Australia and it has online training, pollination support, and just as importantly, it has a resilience page, which has documents in there on stuff like anxiety, sleep, supporting yourself and others. I can't stress enough. Reach out. Use the resources that are out there. Use your fellow beekeepers. You'll find that you'll create a really good bond, a really good wealth of information, just to help you.

Drew Radford:

Jamie, this program that you're part of, how long does it go on for?

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

The National Varroa Mite Management Program is wrapping up in February next year. The resources will still be online. You will still have ARBIC and your local beekeeping clubs and yourself to support yourself, past the end of our program.

Drew Radford:

Jamie, we've been talking about you supporting other people's mental health, but you as a case study, how do you support your own mental health?

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

I have a support group that I go to every week. I also have checkups with my own GP who quite well understands my role and what I go through day to day. I have an amazing partner who is always there if I need a hand, and I have a great team.

Drew Radford:

Jamie, you and the team have been doing remarkable work over the last couple of years supporting beekeepers go through this terribly difficult time. Jamie Perry-Meijer, thank you so much for taking the time and joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Jamie Perry-Meijer:

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

If you'd like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186. All information is accurate at the time of release. For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

In many regional farms, more and more workers from diverse backgrounds are joining the workforce, but how do farmers make sure they feel safe, respected, and set up for success from day one?

G’day, I’m Drew Radford. And someone who’s recently trod this path is Christine Sebire from Ivyhurst Dairy. She welcomed Filipino workers onto her farm just outside of Echuca, and she joins me for this AgVic Talk podcast. Hello, Christine.

Christine Sebire:

How do you do?

Drew Radford:

I’m really well. Thanks, Christine. Christine, thank you for your time. You’re on a dairy farm, but you’re not from a farming background, are you?

Christine Sebire:

No, no. Married into farming about 15 years or so ago. It’s been a very steep learning curve. It’s a pretty big farm too. So, there’s a lot that goes on here that I’ve learnt about pretty quickly.

Drew Radford:

Yeah. Big farm, I understand you do more than milk a few cows. How many cows, and what else goes on?

Christine Sebire:

So, we’re milking about 650 and we are milking them in a swing over, 26 a side. So, it’s a hard slog for the people that do the milking for us. We are building a rotary dairy, but it’s still about six months away. So, when that happens, that will make a difference to the operation.

But as it stands now, our staff, they’ll do us three and a half, four, maybe even a four and a half hour milking. And so, we don’t have anybody who milks twice a day. So that means that we need more people on the ground to make sure that we can make that happen. We’ve also got a lot of young stock that we’re feeding, because we rear our heifers for export. So, we need to make sure they’re in top shape. And then we’ve got a pretty big cropping operation as well. So that means that we need a lot of people on the ground.

Drew Radford:

How many people, Christine?

Christine Sebire:

We’ve got about a dozen full time and then a couple of casuals as well. You know some ladies that just do some milkings and that type of thing.

Drew Radford:

Now, to help run that operation, I understand you’ve welcomed Filipino workers to Ivyhurst Dairy. Where did that decision come from?

Christine Sebire:

We were probably pretty late to that decision because many of the farms in this neighbourhood had taken the option of employing people from the Philippines or from Kenya over recent years. And as a matter of fact, we knew a lot of Filipino people that worked on dairy farms around the district and have been very familiar with the trend for Filipino workers.

So, we hadn’t needed it because we are close to town. And so, it hadn’t been hard to attract staff. People could still be living in town and working here without it being too much of a stretch. Up until about 5 years ago, we had really no issues at all attracting and maintaining staff. But in these last 3 or 4 years, the whole situation’s changed. And there’s just not people around who want to work on a dairy farm. So, we did then look at employing from overseas.

Drew Radford:

Now, that’s easier said than done, I'd imagine.

Christine Sebire:

Much easier said than done.

Drew Radford:

What’s that involve?

Christine Sebire:

It was actually a 12-months journey for us to... And I just need to say, Drew, we only got our first Filipino worker in April, and then his partner actually joined him a month or so ago. There are lots of people that have been employing people from overseas for a very long time, but I suppose the fact that we are just new to it means that a lot of it is still very fresh.

It really took us exactly 12 months from when we first contacted the migration agency until our first worker arrived here. We had purposely gone with Filipinos because we knew that we could make a transition for them much more easily than we could because of our connections to the Filipino community here in town. So that was a bit of a given that was helpful for us.

Drew Radford:

You mentioned that you targeted Filipino workers because you had connections there. So what steps have you taken then to make Ivyhurst Dairy a welcoming place for workers from that background?

Christine Sebire:

Our first advantage was that we have a lady who we have known for a very, very long time who has done occasional work here on our farm. And she came to Australia 30 years ago, married an Aussie guy. And she’s like the matriarch of the local Filipino community. So, we knew that she would be a great help in settling our first worker. And she was just tremendous, taking them to mass, taking them shopping and to social functions and things like that straight away, so that our worker felt part of the community from the get-go, which was really, really important.

Drew Radford:

That’d be huge. You’re leaving your home country behind, but you are also coming to a very different environment, inland Australia.

Christine Sebire:

Yes, I’ve gotta say the drive from the airport, anybody who’s employing somebody from overseas, absolutely go and get them yourself from the airport because that drive was just really the great opportunity to talk about so many different things. And yes there is a bit of a language barrier, but because you’ve got lots of time when you’re just driving in the car, then you can really tease those sorts of things out.

So, I learned a lot about our worker, and they learned a lot about us in that trip. But one of the things was how big is your farm? Our farm is 860 hectares. Oh, the farm I worked on in Japan was 80 hectares. Really worried about getting lost. And so, first thing, yep, here’s a map. This is the map of the farm before you’re going off anywhere to get some cows.

And, of course, moving stock never had to do it before because the farm in Japan, the cows were in the shed, you opened the gate, the cows walked onto the dairy. So, there’s lots of things that are quite different.

Drew Radford:

Well, in that context, Christine, the safety aspect, how do you ensure that new workers, especially the ones we’re talking about from overseas, understand and follow those safety protocols, which are so crucial?

Christine Sebire:

I’ve just found that with the workers that we have, we just have to say it once. This is what we do here. You put it on, and there’s no question. Okay. That's how we do it. Just making sure that we show how to do things rather than tell and think that because you’ve told somebody that they’ve understood because they’ll agree, say, ‘Yeah. No worries,’ but just making sure that we’re really demonstrating what we’re talking about.

And for our workers, we’ve really found that their English literacy is perhaps better than the oral understanding. And so, everything that we are talking about on making sure that they’re getting that in the written form as well.

Drew Radford:

That’s interesting that the written word has actually been your friend in that scenario, whereas in some other working environments is quite pictorial.

Christine Sebire:

And I suppose that’s just about the way that they’ve learnt English in school and things, I suppose. And as they say, ‘You talk so fast,’ and we do talk fast and use so many Australianisms that are difficult to understand. So, we’re just needing to make sure that we do that.

Our manager has been tremendous. He’s a young guy, in mid-30s or so, and a really patient fella. And he has just been really steady and patient and just really supportive of the workers, and that’s been really great. And explaining why, ‘No, you don’t have to do this fast. You have to do this slowly and carefully. You don’t want to get kicked by that cow.’

So just making sure that we’re giving the explanation of why. And as with all workers, if you’re explaining why you have safety procedures, people will normally conform.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, Christine, what have you learned from working with the multicultural team? And what advice would you give to other farmers considering the same?

Christine Sebire:

The workers that we have just want to please. They’re so happy to work hard. They want to accrue hours. They’re supporting family. They’re doing all sorts of things. And so, the hours that they can work, they don’t mind. But so, we need to be careful not to take advantage of that, though we certainly aren’t, but they bring a joy and an energy because now we’re just doing it. There’s no messing around. There’s no, ‘I’ve got to stand around and have a cup of coffee.’

It’s like we’re in and we’re going. That really lifts the bar for everybody to a degree.

One of the neighbouring farms, they, a few weeks ago, invited all of the Filipino workers from the farms in the district that they knew of. So, there was about half a dozen farms that were represented there by about 40 to 50 Filipino workers, single people, families, people with babies, partners, all different ages.

And it was the best night. So, I learned then that Filipinos love karaoke. I did not know that. Apparently, you never have a Filipino gathering without karaoke, but that was tremendous because it was such a great way to network those people. And so, we took our matriarch. She totally wanted to come because she wanted to link up with all these other people on the farms that she didn’t know as well.

That was a ripper of a thing to do, and we will certainly be proactive in making sure that we do something like that on a regular basis. I am very involved in the local church parish. And so, because Filipinos, by and large, are Catholic, that’s how come I knew so many of the Filipino people that were already working here on farms.

And so being able to have already that familiarity with the fact that there are so many different dialects, the fact that you can have 10 Filipino people standing next to you, but they don't all necessarily speak the same language. Yes, they've got Tagalog. And so how they themselves have challenges around language, even with each other.

But they don’t necessarily have similar backgrounds at all. So that’s been a very good awareness for us to have in regards to future employment.

Drew Radford:

Christine Sebire has worked hard to make her new staff feel part of not only the farm, but also safe and part of the community. There’s a lot to setting up a culturally safe working environment. The good news is there are programs and organisations to help farmers do it successfully.

One of those is the Gardiner Foundation. Jenny Wilson is their General Manager of People and Community Development. Jenny, thanks for your time.

Jenny Wilson:

Thanks, Drew.

Drew Radford:

Jenny, the Gardiner Foundation, for those that don’t know it, how would you describe it?

Jenny Wilson:

Gardiner Foundation is a philanthropic organisation that was established 25 years ago when the dairy industry deregulated and part of that process of deregulation, there were funds left over from the sale of marketing assets.

The sale from those assets was agreed by dairy farmers, processing companies and state government to invest that money into a foundation. And today, we see Gardiner Foundation 25 years on having invested over a hundred million back into dairying communities.

Drew Radford:

Well, as part of that opportunity to reinvest, I’m guessing that’s kind of what you do. What’s your role?

Jenny Wilson:

So, my role specifically is General Manager for People and Community Development, it is really to oversee the investment in the areas of industry support, people development and community development. And so that includes projects around supporting leadership within our industry, community grants programs, scholarships or tertiary scholarships for students.

Really interesting projects around housing and accommodation that we’re looking at the moment, and also workforce, and in particular project around how we can better engage culturally diverse people into agriculture and into the dairy industry.

Drew Radford:

You said culturally and diverse. We often hear the term CALD as an acronym for that. What’s that mean for you?

Jenny Wilson:

What it really means for me and probably importantly for this project, is working with people that come from a migrant or refugee or perhaps are newly arrived into Australia.

Drew Radford:

Why is this important to you and the industry?

Jenny Wilson:

I come from the Shepparton area. It is very well known to be a very diverse community and a community that is also entrenched in agriculture. And so having grown up in the region, I’ve seen firsthand, I guess the opportunity and the benefits that come from a culturally diverse community and what that brings to a particular industry. And that’s things around sort of vibrancy and people with different perspectives and a really strong passion for what they’re doing.

Drew Radford:

In terms of this then, Jenny, what do you reckon some of the main challenges and barriers are that people from CALD backgrounds face when they enter the dairy industry?

Jenny Wilson:

This isn’t specific to just the dairy industry, I think it could be agriculture in general or any sector really. I think finding an inclusive and welcoming environment is probably one of the first or key challenges. And also finding the right pathway into agriculture, into the dairy industry.

It could be because of limited English, potentially an absence of key contacts within an industry. It could be fundamental challenges around access to public transport or a lack of driver’s licence. And if you think about rural and regional areas, public transport, there's not a lot of it.

Even dealing with challenges around language, some of our Australian workplace norms that can cause misunderstandings and miscommunication. We often don't think of cultural or religious needs with employees. There’s a whole sort of suite of compelling challenges, I guess particularly if you’re a newly arrived migrant or refugee into a community and then trying to find your place.

Drew Radford:

You mentioned a whole suite of challenges there, and I reckon that’s probably a bit of an understatement. So, I understand the Gardiner Foundation is entered into a partnership on a project to try and address this. What is it?

Jenny Wilson:

The project really is about how we can successfully transition people from culturally diverse communities into roles in ag.

So, focusing, say on the ag businesses in the first place, what are some of the practices that they need to have in place that set up that culturally safe environment for culturally diverse people? What are the improvements that they may need to make around safety and induction practices? How do they set up that sort of supportive supervisory environment and team culture environment for CALD workers? And then, how do we also then work with CALD workers to be attracted and retained into these roles? So how can we help them, whether it's through particular training, induction, ongoing support and development to support them into those roles in agriculture?

The project itself is being funded in two locations to really test some of these opportunities in each of the locations. So, one’s in Goulburn–Murray in northern Victoria, the other’s in Leongatha, Maffra region in Gippsland.

Drew Radford:

What do you see as the opportunities that led Agriculture Victoria and the Gardiner Foundation invest in this project?

Jenny Wilson:

There is a lot that can be done to particularly support people from culturally diverse backgrounds.

So, at the moment, about 11% I think of the ag workforce is made up of people from culturally diverse backgrounds. And that number comes down again just within the dairy industry. It’s somewhere around 7 or 8%. We think we can grow that number significantly. We know there are lots of challenges for ag businesses around workforce, and we think there’s a real untapped market there if they’re able to think through how they can set up a culturally safe working environment.

So huge opportunities. But yes, there are some really good examples and success stories. And we see that working particularly well in perhaps some of the larger businesses where they might have more resources to actually apply to their HR management and safety practices. So those businesses are working really well with culturally diverse communities within their local footprint, working with those individuals within their business, some of their community leaders, and really setting up successful employment scenarios.

Drew Radford:

Jenny, what are your top 3 tips for improving cultural safety in the dairy industry?

Jenny Wilson:

I think the 3 key things would be make sure that you’re thinking about and building cultural awareness within your business. So, ensuring that amongst not just the owners or the managers within a business, but it’s right across the whole working team. So, I think fostering that inclusive environment is absolutely critical. And that could be anything from ensuring that your communication, your messages, your signage, all of those things are considering people coming from scenarios of limited English language. It could also be things like incorporating cultural awareness around particular religious practices, even down to foods that people eat within a working environment. So, all of these things make a difference. So that’s probably one, building that sort of cultural awareness.

Second one is about that clear communication and ensuring that information, particularly around safety, is very clear. And also use like a buddy system to help support people understand and demonstrate the activity that might need to be learnt.

And then, the third one is around making sure that you generate community connection. So, recognising that people need to feel like they’re part of a community. So, what are those social connections that you can support them with? Is it shared meals? Is it pointing them into local religious organisations? Is it community activities that might be going on? Just sort of thinking about life beyond the workplace for these individuals and how you can support that.

Drew Radford:

Jenny, it’s a great initiative. There's a lot to consider. Are there some resources or tools you can recommend for other dairy businesses starting on this journey?

Jenny Wilson:

There are some resources already available, particularly through Dairy Australia and their People in Dairy website. But as this project develops over the next 2 years, we’ll come out the other side with further resources, in particular training and training packages around how you do set up a culturally safe working environment.

Drew Radford:

Jenny, it does sound like a fantastic project to replicate. All the best with it in the coming months and years. For now though, Jenny Wilson, General Manager for People and Community Development for Gardiner Foundation. Thank you so much for joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Jenny Wilson:

Thanks very much, Drew.

Speaker 1:

If you’d like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

When people come onto a workplace, there's an obligation to keep them safe. These days, that usually starts with an induction and a long, printed document. How, though, does that keep the 20% of the population who can't read that document safe?

G’day. I'm Drew Radford, and that percentage is estimated by the Australian Dyslexia Association. It's a sobering thought that one in five people who sign an induction form to enter a farm may not have actually been able to read it.

Samantha Pritchard is CEO and co-founder of People in Paddocks, and she decided if everyone's to be kept safe, a solution needed to be found. To discuss that and the importance of inductions, Sam joins me for this AgVic Talk podcast. Hello, Sam.

Samantha Pritchard:

Hi, Drew. Thank you for having me on this show.

Drew Radford:

Absolute pleasure, Sam. Sam, we're going to delve into inductions and some of the things that actually can make that problematic, but your business and your insight in this particular area comes from spending, well, pretty much a lot of your life on the land. What's your background?

Samantha Pritchard:

Yes. For the last 10 years I've been living on a crop and sheep farm out in regional Victoria. But I was the group Human Resources and Workplace Health and Safety Manager for a corporate farming group that was based out that way too, but with operations in five states around Australia. Just being part of the community is such a joy. Also owned a pub out in the country. So yes, I guess it's in the blood.

Drew Radford:

Well, it's in the blood and you've certainly got dust on the boots. And you've also sat at the keyboard and seen the legislative requirements as well. You've straddled both sides of the fence, which is important, because the legislation in terms of farmer responsibilities to workers has changed quite a bit.

Samantha Pritchard:

It has changed immensely, particularly since the introduction of the manslaughter law that came into play in 2020. That's quite scary. When I was at the corporate farm, essentially my job was to ensure that the directors in Sydney didn't go to jail if something went pear-shaped. And now working and consulting to family farms, I find farmers in general know they need to get better at safety, but many just don't know where to start. There's lots of resources out there, but that doesn't necessarily make the process any easier, potentially quite often more confusing, I think.

Drew Radford:

There is a lot to sift through and to get your head around to make sure that you're doing the right thing by your workers. But then there's a complexity on top of that in terms of, well, you can put a bunch of information in front of a worker, but they don't always consume that easily. You had a bit of an aha moment, I understand.

Samantha Pritchard:

I did. When I was at the corporate farm, I had an 85-page employee policy manual, and we had a young worker named Tom, and he was looking for work experience and made contact with us. And I thought, "Fabulous. He's grown up on a farm, come and work at the farm, win-win." And his mum made contact with me and mentioned that he is dyslexic.

I didn't really know much about dyslexia at the time, so she came in and helped me change a lot of the processes that we had in place, such as the 85-page employee policy manual, which was of no benefit to Tom in its current formats. And I did a bit of research to learn that one in five in Australia is actually dyslexic. And since meeting Tom about five years ago and managing both corporate and family farming teams, I'm thinking it's more likely one in three in ag, which is potentially 33% of our industry, struggling to read our safety instructions and our messages.

Drew Radford:

That's a considerable number, and I've seen that number from Australia Dyslexia Association, the one in five number. It's a very high number. So then what do you do to try and adapt resources to get around that?

Samantha Pritchard:

Yeah, well that's been a nice journey along the way, because I am fairly open in my meetings with family farms and getting to know their teams and having these discussions. And potentially 90% of the dyslexics I work with have never actually told their bosses or their colleagues of their reading and writing challenges. So that makes it even more challenging for owners of businesses or managers not even realising that they have these struggles within their team, but more than likely that they do.

So I've worked with a lot of the dyslexic workers and we transformed our safe work procedures into short and engaging training videos. We developed an app that is more dyslexic friendly, and we make sure that our messages at our farms are short text messages, and preferably phone calls is generally what most of the workers I work with, prefer, to ensure that they get that message across.

Drew Radford:

That's a tough thing to get around because I'm guessing there's some stigma there, that people don't reveal that when they go into a workplace.

Samantha Pritchard:

It's a sad stigma, really, because yes, with dyslexia they have challenges in reading and writing, but I'm not sure if you're aware, NASA is known for intentionally seeking out dyslexic workers. At one stage it was reported that 50% of their employees were dyslexic because of their incredible problem-solving skills and spatial awareness ability. So, it's an absolute untapped gem that we have in agriculture as well. So, it's finding the strengths and helping with the challenges.

Drew Radford:

So you've developed the videos, you understand there's a problem. Then we need the induction side of it. Why do you think people should treat the first week on a property as an induction as opposed to just the first hour?

Samantha Pritchard:

There are so many nuances in farming and so many hazards and risks on a farm, that it's impossible to cover everything off in one hour. And there's lots to be learned, particularly for family and generational farmers, there's so much IP and knowledge in their heads that we need to get out onto paper. And it doesn't matter how that happens, but as long as we pass all of that information onto our workers.

And it can be a fun process too. And I like to think that it starts before the worker even steps onto the farm. So, with an email beforehand to say, "Hey, can't wait till you start next Monday, make sure that you bring your driver's license, a lunchbox and a water bottle," whatever it might be, "and this is where we'll meet and at this time." Because they're really nervous when they start their first job. So, it's just all that pre-planning as well as the first week of an induction too.

Drew Radford:

And now I'm thinking there's an overlay of, you've sent somebody an email who may not readily consume that. So how do you even get around that?

Samantha Pritchard:

Yes, very good point. So, there are lots of tricks around that in terms of bullet point forms, and it's not that they can't read something, it's just how we phrase words or, I've actually put something up on our website and a link to Made By Dyslexia, which is a brilliant group, and Richard Branson is part of it because he's very famous for promoting his dyslexia and how much success he's had. And that gives you some guides too, and some little lessons on what we can all do as employers or even employees in the workplace, and how we can help promote inclusivity.

Drew Radford:

So, Sam, how do you then make that first week successful? I understand you're pretty keen about a kitchen-table style induction.

Samantha Pritchard:

I am.

Drew Radford:

Why is that, and what else can you do to make the week successful?

Samantha Pritchard:

Well, I think regardless of whether it's a corporate farm or a family farm, there's just something relaxing about a kitchen table conversation. So even at the corporate farm, I would try to make our inductions around the staff room table with a coffee or whatever it might be, and just start more informally with a chat one-on-one, face-to-face going through the different rules of the farm.

We do have to have documentation as well, but it's nice to start with those general chats and getting some information about their background and whether they've used a fire extinguisher before or know what to do if they're bitten by a snake. Just having a general chat about those can relax the conversation from the start and then we can get more into the full induction process.

Drew Radford:

What do you reckon the two most important things are to cover off for every new staff member?

Samantha Pritchard:

Definitely to report hazards on farms. So the majority of deaths that have happened around Australia, we have a 20-plus year record of the highest fatality rates of any industry. And sadly, the majority of them probably could have been avoided if the hazard was identified and dealt with beforehand.

So, knowing how to report a hazard and doing something about it, even if it's a bit of flapping tin on a roof, which we all sadly know that that caused a death last year. So, reporting hazards is the first one.

Second one would be competency assessments. It's something that a lot of farms don't do, and I can't stress highly enough the importance that WorkSafe place on competency checks if there is an accident on a farm. So, a competency check is checking that the person has been actually taught how to handle cattle or how to operate a hay baler safely, and stepping through every step with them, and then signing off on that assessment.

Drew Radford:

You've got obviously the longer-term employees who are coming onto the property. What about contractors and visitors? How do you deal with inductions for those sorts of people?

Samantha Pritchard:

That's a really good question and such an important area to make sure that we all look after anyone who comes onto our farm. Sadly, one of my clients became a client after a death on their farm, and it was a contractor. And they were generational farmers that didn't have anything in place and suddenly needed everything.

We need to set the rules from the start before they even enter the farm. If we put up a sign at the front with our UH number, with our contact number, and asking them to make contact with us. And then if they don't and they come onto our farm, just reminding them and saying, "Hey, so please make sure that you call me every time you're on the farm. I need to know that you're there." And then giving them an induction, too.

So, I've actually put some free training resources up on my website, on People in Paddocks, and a contractor induction is one of them that takes them through an easy, dyslexic-friendly check form, and is specific to whatever they might be doing.

Drew Radford:

You mentioned that everybody that comes onto your farm, and farms are often family homes.

Samantha Pritchard:

Yes.

Drew Radford:

So what about kids and families then? What about inductions there?

Samantha Pritchard:

I always say to even our workers, it's everybody's responsibility to ensure our little ones are safe. Sometimes contractors might bring kids with them too if it's school holidays. So, we just need to make sure that they're always safe.

But I always recommend to families if their kids are old enough, then run them through the same staff induction that we do for our team. They need to know the rules and procedures as well. And in fact, WorkSafe will be looking for it. If something was to go wrong, they would want to know that we had actually taught our kids what the rules and procedures were. And if the kid's are little, we can make it a little bit more fun, and do some sort of interactive game, or... We actually had a client had a random WorkSafe investigation one day, and we were walking through the machinery shed and their three-year-old said, "We aren't allowed in there," pointing to the tractor. And I thought, "Oh, brilliant. That's perfect. They've obviously taught their kids their rules."

Drew Radford:

Sam, things change on properties. There's new equipment, new hazards turn up. So how do you deal with that for ongoing employees?

Samantha Pritchard:

For everybody to be aware of the hazards, technology is really handy to be able to list hazards and discuss them. But also, toolbox meetings are vital. And it doesn't matter if there are two people on the farm that day or even in the team, or there's 10. I always recommend having a regular toolbox meeting, and it doesn't have to be anything formal, but it does need to be documented. And that's a really great time to talk about a new hazard that's on the farm and how the team should deal with it.

Another is to ask the team what they find is the most dangerous part about their job. I like to do this every time I go to a new farm, and I'll ask the team around the circle, "What is the most dangerous part of your job, or what sends shivers down your spine?" And it's always a well-thought answer, and quite often the owners are quite surprised at what they answer with. But it's now an open conversation. We can deal with that risky part of their business.

Drew Radford:

Sam, I understand you say there are three things that any farmer can do today to reduce fatalities. Can you walk me through those?

Samantha Pritchard:

Sure. And it is nice to have some action items that we can easily achieve without having to find the resources to do it. So, one comes back to our hazards and the importance of listing them. So even if we sat at the kitchen table at Smoko and listed five hazards on our farm that need addressing and then asking the family or the team members what their hazards might be as well, and let's deal with those.

The second one is to stop sending lengthy text messages and emails. Some of us prefer written communication, but if we're dealing with one in three in ag with dyslexia, and most likely you might have somebody in your team, then just make sure we keep our text messages short and instead use the UH radio and the phone more often, and also face-to-face communications.

And the last one is to get some regular training happening, starting with some free emergency and safe work training procedures. So that will take the team through safely operating a tractor. We've put some videos up there if we couldn't find them, or we've found some resources through industry associations that were relevant to our industry. And they're available on our website. So don't hold back. It just seems fair that the minimal thing we can do, is teach our workers what to do in emergency situation and how to safely operate our machinery and equipment.

Drew Radford:

While Sam Pritchard has been working on an industry-wide solution for inductions, Sheree Henderson deals with them at a farm level. She inducts workers that come onto her family's properties in North-Western Victoria.

Sheree Henderson:

We're broadacre farming up here, so wheat, barley, lentils, and oaten hay.

Drew Radford:

So more than just you and your husband working on it, I'm guessing?

Sheree Henderson:

Yes. It's what we classify as just a family farm. So, it's brother-in-law, father-in-law, and a cousin in there as well.

Drew Radford:

I'm guessing also you've got a range of consultants and advisors and different people coming on and off the properties as well as people helping you with harvest.

Sheree Henderson:

Yeah, so we've got a few full-time staff members. We've got ones that we employ over harvest and sowing as well.

Drew Radford:

So that's quite a lot going on. Why is farm safety important to you?

Sheree Henderson:

Personally, it's important to me because I want my husband to come home every night to see the kids and myself.

Drew Radford:

I think that's probably the most important reason, isn't it really? Everyone deserves to come home safe, and especially when you're living on it, it's a much closer reality, isn't it?

Sheree Henderson:

100%. Some days my husband could come home at eight, nine o'clock at night and sometimes if he hasn't messaged, I get a little bit funny, as he would call it, but at the end of the day, it's just because I want him home. And I don't see why it should be any different for anyone else either. I want my staff members to go home as well.

Drew Radford:

So what farm safety practices have you implemented on your property?

Sheree Henderson:

Probably the biggest one for us is making sure that every staff member gets an induction. I've done many different ways of doing inductions, but I've found that sitting down at the kitchen table and just having a talk with them about it and what's expected is the most easiest way to get it across because it's more of a conversation.

Whereas if we ask them to do it, just tick boxes and read things, quite often it is, they just tick boxes and they don't read things. So, I sit down with every staff member. Depending, whether they're new or they're coming back for another year, they either sit between half an hour to an hour with me just having a discussion of what's expected, what's needed, what their responsibilities are, what our responsibilities are throughout the property.

It's from, for example, PPE, so personal safety equipment, through to maintenance checks on the tractors to different hazards throughout the paddock to being mindful and looking after yourself and making sure that you understand your own fatigue levels because that's probably the biggest impact in farm safety itself.

We've only ever had to take one person, I think, to a hospital, and that was my husband. But it's approximately 11 pages that we do and we just have a chat. And adequate food and water, that's a big one we have a discussion about as well because we might have one task set for someone and then the plan has changed. So, if they don't have their lunch packed with them or they don't have adequate water, it could have a negative impact as well.

Drew Radford:

Do you do this with contractors as well?

Sheree Henderson:

Yes. If you're going to be working on our property, we expect you to know our rules, basically. One of the first questions I ask when we bring a contractor on the farm is do they have a health and safety program. Some of them look a bit sheepish and say no.

Some of them pretend that they do and they don't. And others, yeah, they 100% do. So, it depends on responses to what happens, for example, over harvest, I had a header contractor come in, she sat at the table with me, and we just went through our safety induction just so that we knew that she was safe.

Drew Radford:

Sheree, you've developed quite a system there. What farm safety training have you undertaken to develop this?

Sheree Henderson:

I try to allocate at least once a year doing a training day or some sort of training. For example, we've just recently completed all the full-time staff. We trained in the telehandler training the year before. We had all our staff members participate in first aid training. And then during toolbox meetings, which at the moment are bi-monthly because that's what works best for us, we go over different things, whether it's working from heights, just remembering to make sure that you're not climbing the silos because we're not equipped for you to climb a silo.

You haven't got your height certification and you need to be opening them from the bottom. Just little reminders and prompts to make sure that the staff members are doing the right things or even simple things. In a toolbox meeting, we mention things like remember to wear seat belts or travel at the designated speed for the area that they're in, especially around the yards, which for us is 20K because you never know, there could be a kid coming out from somewhere as well. So yeah, just different things.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, are there any resources or tools that you can recommend to other farm businesses who are thinking about starting this journey?

Sheree Henderson:

It depends which direction would suit the business that you're in. For me, I utilised information from that many different sources, being AgVic, WorkSafe, VFF. There's lots of different like Farmsafe. There's apps like Safer Farms Australia.

And we use ones like FarmSimple just to record maintenance for vehicles. That's probably one of the only apps that we really use for OH&S ourselves. But like I said, every farm's different. We've got enough apps that we've got to use for different things, so we think adding another one's just too much for staff and we don't want them on their phone and distracted all the time, so we started limiting a lot of things and keeping it basic. So, with our farm safety, we do use the toolbox meetings more so.

Drew Radford:

Sounds like you've put an enormous amount in place to make your property safer than ever, and more importantly, make sure everyone comes home safely and in one piece at the end of the day. Sheree Henderson, thank you so much for taking the time and joining me for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Sheree Henderson:

Thank you, Drew. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

If you’d like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk. Keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Q fever can be a debilitating disease. It’s prevalence has increased considerably in Victoria. G’day, I'm Drew Radford. Q fever can present with no symptoms or it can mimic a severe flu-like illness. Alarmingly, about 10% of those with acute Q fever may develop a chronic fatigue-like illness that can be debilitating for years.

Infection typically occurs by inhaling contaminated air or dust from birth fluids, urine, faeces, blood, or milk that's from infected animals. While cattle, sheep, and goats are primary sources, many other animals, including domestic pets and wildlife, can also spread it. The resilient bacteria can survive in soil and dust for years, and even be carried by the wind over several kilometres.

A person with a deep understanding of Q fever and who is also passionate about protecting others from it is Karen McLennan. She's Executive Officer with GippsDairy. Hello, Karen.

Karen McLennan:

Hi, how are you going?

Drew Radford:

I'm very well. Thanks, Karen, and thank you for your time. You're in the dairy game, but I understand dairy farming is kind of in your DNA, isn't it?

Karen McLennan:

Correct, yeah. I grew up on a dairy farm in South Gippsland, spent all of my childhood and teenage-hood on a dairy farm with my parents and my siblings. Yeah, it was a pretty wonderful upbringing.

Drew Radford:

Karen, your role now, I would imagine that puts you in contact with a lot of producers across Gippsland.

Karen McLennan:

Yeah, we've got about just around 940 dairy farms across Gippsland that stretches from Orbost in the east to Pakenham in the west and from the Great Dividing Range down to the ocean. So, we've definitely got a diversity of farmers and farming systems across our region.

Drew Radford:

So that'll probably put you pretty much in touch with anything that's going on such as Q fever. Now I understand it is significantly more common in Gippsland than the rest of Victoria.

Karen McLennan:

Definitely. The most recent stats were pretty damning made us think about what we were doing. 45% of all Q fever cases in Victoria came from Gippsland, and we've got some particular pockets within Gippsland as well, in the Wellington Shire where the Macalister Irrigation District is, seems to be a hot spot for Q fever.

We're really not sure why. Lots of people ask me this question and we're just not sure if it's to do with changes in farming practices, whether it's something to do with our changing climate, or something really specific to the region that we just can't put our finger on.

Drew Radford:

That's a concerning number to say the least and accounts for nearly half of the 77 cases recorded in Victoria for 2024. That year saw a significant increase over the numbers recorded in the previous five years. But behind the numbers, Karen, is the human impact, and I understand you've seen that firsthand.

Karen McLennan:

Yeah, definitely. We had a neighbour who was really, really ill a couple of years ago now. It really impacted on them significantly to the point where they'd been in hospital, very unwell in hospital, and still weren't sure what exactly was causing it. So, if there's any message that I can get out to anybody in the farming community is if you're going to the GP or getting tested for any general colds and flus, always make sure that you're telling people you work on a dairy farm.

Drew Radford:

That's because you want them to be tested for Q fever.

Karen McLennan:

Correct. Definitely, yes. I mean ideally I'd love them all to be vaccinated, but it's definitely happening. If people aren't vaccinated, they definitely need to be declaring the place of where they work and some of the risks that they might be exposed to.

Drew Radford:

Now in terms of getting vaccinated, though, which is what we're going to drill down to in terms of your organisation's work on trying to help this happen, it's not a cheap thing to pursue. It can vary quite considerably depending on where you go for testing and vaccination.

Karen McLennan:

We've had dairy farmers quoted from $300 to $500 for the testing and the vaccination. Really important for people to understand that it's a two-appointment process where you would go into a GP clinic and be tested. So, you get some serum injected under the skin and then the GP also sends you off for some blood tests. Then a week later, you come back and have your skin checked and your blood test results checked, and then they decide based on the results of that whether you need the vaccination. It is a two-step process and takes two appointments to eliminate that you haven't already had Q fever before you get the vaccination.

Drew Radford:

So, there's a bit involved and there's a cost involved. GippsDairy, though, who's stepped up to the plate and got involved with a project to try and reduce some of those barriers to entry. What are you doing?

Karen McLennan:

So, we're offering a subsidy of people paying no more than $125 yet towards that testing and vaccination process. What we're really keen to emphasise too is when people work this industry, we really like people to take the responsibility and say, "Hey, I want to work in this industry." So, I'd look at getting myself tested and vaccinated, because it's only one vaccination. So, once you're done, if you move to a different farm or that type of thing, we're almost wanting people to take the responsibility on themselves that if they're working in the industry, they get themselves vaccinated. But this is a way of reducing that cost.

Drew Radford:

I can understand you wanting people to get vaccinated, especially when you've seen firsthand results of how sick it makes people. Is this becoming an OH&S issue for the industry as well?

Karen McLennan:

Definitely, definitely. So, as you are maybe aware, Q fever is a notifiable disease. So WorkSafe automatically gets notified anytime there is a notification of Q fever. So, you look at the alternatives. You can either get vaccinated and prevent yourself from getting Q fever. Otherwise, if you're working on a dairy farm and you're not vaccinated, it is really upon your employer to make sure that you're wearing then protective or you're making sure you're wearing protective clothing and equipment when you are working on the farm.

So, it's a bit of an added burden to a farmer and to the individual if they're not vaccinated to make sure they're protected. So, we're encouraging people, the best thing to do is get vaccinated, to then not have to wear all of this protective gear and be restricted in what you can do on farm as well.

Drew Radford:

I'd imagine that would be quite restricting. So, what are you talking about? Breathing masks and overalls?

Karen McLennan:

Yeah, most farmers and workers on farms too would wear gloves and things. But, yeah, it's definitely a mask and like an apron that would prevent splash of faeces, that sort of thing, or amniotic fluid. When cows are calving, you want to avoid getting any of that near you or in your system.

Drew Radford:

So, Karen, how's the project been received by the farmers in the area?

Karen McLennan:

It's been received really well. I have to stress this is not the first time something like this has been delivered. Probably about 20 years ago, United Dairy Farmers Victoria did something similar and we just thought why not do it again? Because it's important that the issue gets raised, people are aware of it. Given we had higher numbers in Gippsland, we just felt it was really important to do it.

Drew Radford:

I'd imagine it'd almost be ongoing in terms of continual awareness campaign because of industry turnover as well.

Karen McLennan:

Correct. Although we've got funding for this particular project now, we want to make sure we're setting up the industry really well to be able to continue this beyond this project. So really one of the things we're also looking at is where is the gaps where farmers can access Q fever vaccinations? Some farmers have to travel a couple of hours to the closest clinic that's offering Q fever vaccination. So, we're trying to extend the numbers of GP surgeries too that are offering the testing and vaccination so that it is easier and people can access it locally.

Drew Radford:

Now I understand there's more than just one prong to this project. The subsidy is a really important part, but you're gathering data as well.

Karen McLennan:

Correct. So, every person that's tested, we're making sure that we collate all of those results into a research project, all de-identified information, but just to get an understanding of, in this high-risk population of dairy farmers, how many already had Q fever and may not have known about it? So far, we have had a higher incidence of farmers testing positive to Q fever and not requiring the vaccination. So, it's definitely possible for some people who have had a cold or a flu just to put it down to a cold or flu, but they might've in fact had Q fever and not realised it.

Drew Radford:

Is part of this also trying to work out whether there's particular hotspots or we're trying to work out why Gippsland has such a high rate? I mean obviously you've got a lot of livestock, but it seems disproportionate.

Karen McLennan:

It definitely is. I guess our project, it can only go so far, but I think what it will do is highlight where there might already be existing pockets of farmers or their staff that have already had Q fever, and then, hopefully, I believe there'll be a bit of interest in some of the data that comes out of this project to further explore what's contributing to the higher incidence across Gippsland.

Drew Radford:

Karen, you've mentioned a couple of the key things to prevent it. What other things should people consider if they're working in high risk environments, and even the general public in some instances?

Karen McLennan:

Obviously hygiene is a really important one, just hand washing and sanitising and all that sort of thing after working in an environment. Being really careful of dust and exposure to dust. So if you're a neighbour of a dairy farm, it's worth putting a mask on if you are doing stuff that involves turning over soil, that type of thing, to really make sure you're prevented from getting any of the dust particles coming in.

Drew Radford:

What about raw products?

Karen McLennan:

So, milk naturally has Q fever in it, and I think one of the things we should emphasise is that Q fever is endemic in cattle. You can't get rid of Q fever. There is a vaccination for cows, but it's definitely not widely used or widely available because it's just too expensive. So raw milk can have Q fever in it, so as soon as it's processed, the Q fever bacteria is destroyed. So, avoiding milk straight from the vat and then being really cautious around places where your cattle are calving and that type of thing as well. That's going to be where you're more likely to be exposed to the bacteria.

Drew Radford:

Karen, where can people go for more information?

Karen McLennan:

The Gippsland Regional Public Health Unit has a really great Q fever site that's got fact sheets about Q fever, that's got a list of the GP clinics across Gippsland that offer Q fever vaccination, what to expect at the vaccination. People are welcome to ring the GippsDairy phone number as well if they wanted to understand more about this particular project or in what we're trying to achieve.

Drew Radford:

What about people who aren't from Gippsland? What can they do? Where can they go?

Karen McLennan:

Definitely state government also has information on Q fever. So any of the key health channels all have information and fact sheets on Q fever.

Drew Radford:

Karen, just in wrapping up, is there anything you would like to leave people to think about this disease which can be quite debilitating?

Karen McLennan:

Probably just that Q fever is hard to understand because of the variation in which it presents itself in people. So, some can have as simple as a common cold, some might not have any symptoms. But the more severe cases, in 10% of the cases, it can be like chronic fatigue, quite a serious illness that has long lasting impacts. Some people talk about long COVID. Q fever can be like that as well, where their immune system becomes run down and they're more susceptible.

So, for one, vaccination. It's not a series of vaccinations. Just why wouldn't you get vaccinated? Because it's once off and then protects you. So really important to do it.

Drew Radford:

Karen, it sounds like you and your business and the association and beyond are doing a lot to try and keep people safe from Q fever. All the best with that endeavour and getting people to take up your offer. For now, though, Karen McLennan from GippsDairy, thank you so much for taking the time and joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Karen McLennan:

Thank you.

Speaker 1:

If you'd like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

It's often said parenting is the easiest thing in the world to have an opinion about, but the hardest thing in the world to do. G’day, I'm Drew Radford, and that can be even harder for parents in rural and regional and remote areas where drought, floods, and bushfires can add stress to both parents and children. And in those times of stress, getting access to support can be made much harder due to the simple reality of distance. However, there are some great resources which can help parents with their children's mental health well-being during difficult times. One of those is called PERCS and it's been developed by Emerging Minds. Jacqui Lee is a Practice Development Officer with Emerging Minds, and she joins me for this AgVic Talk podcast. Hello, Jacqui.

Jacquelynne Lee:

Hi, Drew. Thanks so much for having me.

Drew Radford:

Jacqui, we've got an important subject to talk about, but I'm kind of curious about you in terms of how does a person go from a marketer in the art space to working in this really sensitive and important area?

Jacquelynne Lee:

I've always had an interest in helping people and connecting with people, so I've been with Emerging Minds for almost seven years, helping to develop free resources for parents, professionals, and organisations to equip them with the skills to support infants and children's well-being. Alongside that, I've been on a journey to become a psychologist. I'm currently completing my Masters of Professional Psychology, but as part of my honours degree, I led a study into the impact of bushfires and floods on family functioning, which highlighted both the challenges that are faced by rural and remote families, but also their strength and resilience, and that's something that we always try to emphasise and bring out in our resources.

Drew Radford:

And the strength and the resilience, that's something we're going to talk a little bit about today, isn't it, because it's so important in terms of supporting children.

Jacquelynne Lee:

Absolutely, and something that I think can get lost in these conversations is all of the things that parents and adults are most likely already doing to support their children's mental health, maybe without even realising it, and just the small adjustments and additions that they can make.

Drew Radford:

Good way of phrasing, because every parent obviously wants to do the right thing first and foremost. This is such a big area, but what I like about this conversation is we've got a fairly clear paddock to roam in because you've got a structure that I want to talk to you about, and it's called The PERCS of Parenting. That's an acronym. What's it stand for briefly? And then we'll break it down into its bits and pieces.

Jacquelynne Lee:

PERCS stands for parent-child relationship, emotions and behaviours, routines, communications and meaning-making, and support networks. These are five areas of a child's life that we've identified as key areas to help nurture and protect a child's mental health and overall wellbeing.

Drew Radford:

I also like that the acronym is a positive acronym, i.e., the PERCS of Parenting. IE, it's a positive thing to be a parent.

Jacquelynne Lee:

Yeah.

Drew Radford:

Let's get into it. The first one, the P for PERCS, which stands for parent-child relationship. What's that all about?

Jacquelynne Lee:

We know that one of the most important things for a child's mental health is having safe, secure, nurturing relationships with adults that they can rely on. These relationships become even more important during times of uncertainty like drought or another kind of climate disaster. We also know that when parents are going through these times, it can feel impossible to find time to connect with their child. There's so many things to juggle and things to worry about, but I want to emphasise that just a few minutes of quality time where you're giving your child 100% of your attention can really make a significant difference to their well-being.

One of the simplest ways to do that is to aim to create moments of connection regularly and often. For example, that might be connecting over something that your child is interested in, like a book they're reading or a game they're playing or an activity or sport that they really love. These are opportunities not just to connect with your child, but to maybe set aside some of those worries for a moment and find some joy in play and creativity.

And another way parents can connect with their children is just through doing chores around the house, around the property. It might not sound that exciting, but this can be a way for children to feel useful, which can be particularly beneficial to their mental health during times of stress and unpredictability, and especially if they can tell that their parents are stressed.

Drew Radford:

Let's move on to the next one, emotions and behaviour. What's the focus here?

Jacquelynne Lee:

We know that children respond to stress in different ways. Younger children in particular communicate their feelings through their behaviour, so it's really important for parents to look for differences in their child's behaviour that might suggest that they're having a hard time. These might not be obvious or negative changes. So, for example, they might become quieter and more compliant or maybe they all of a sudden want to spend more time with you. Questions that parents can think about when they're looking for these changes are, "Does my child seem like themselves? Do they seem happy? Are they enjoying activities and interacting with the family? Are they doing the things we'd expect them to be doing around their age?"

If you do notice signs that your child might be having a tough time, it's really normal to feel concerned or to want to fix things as quickly as possible, especially if they're behaving in ways that are sort of disruptive or maybe challenging. But we really want to encourage parents to be curious about what might be behind the child's behaviour, what they might be trying to tell you, and to encourage and support them to express their thoughts and feelings and ask questions, whether that's by drawing what they're feeling, using a feelings chart or a feeling wheel, or maybe through play.

Drew Radford:

Some great examples, Jacqui. The next one in PERCS is routines. Now, I know I get a little bit discombobulated if my routine gets out of whack for too long. I imagine this is probably even more important for kids. What's under this heading?

Jacquelynne Lee:

Routines really help children, and as you noted, adults as well to feel safe, secure, and connected during times of stress and uncertainty. They can also offer children a sense of control during these otherwise unpredictable and scary times. It can be really tough for children to see their parents worrying, especially when they can't take away the problem, but involving children in routines and decision-making can help to counteract some of that sense of powerlessness and uncertainty that they might be feeling. These don't have to be big decisions. It could be as simple as letting them choose what you'll all have for dinner that night, or maybe what movie or TV show you'll watch. But this can be particularly useful for older children as well, involving them in planning the family's daily or weekly routines and creating rituals can increase their buy-in and really build those family connections.

We know that it can feel impossible to maintain routines during a disaster, but routines don't have to be perfect or set in stone. Instead of thinking about sticking to a routine, you might just think about trying to keep the order or the rhythm of your child's days as predictable as possible. So, for example, even if their bedtime is later because you need to work longer hours around the farm, you might make sure that you always take some time to read one book or a chapter together before bed to help them wind down at the end of the day.

Drew Radford:

That makes the world of sense, doesn't it? As opposed to at 7:30 you've got to go to bed. Well, actually I'm running out of daylight. I've got to use the last 20 minutes, but you still do the same thing at the end of the day.

Jacquelynne Lee:

Yeah, because trying to stick to routines during times of upheaval, it can put a lot of pressure on parents and make them feel guilty and just add to that stress. It's normal to skip or to forget or have to change routines when times are tough, and even just introducing one routine at a time can also be helpful.

Drew Radford:

Moving along, Jacqui. The next one, the C in PERCS, communication and meaning-making. I kind of think I get what the communication part is, but please expand on it, especially the meaning-making.

Jacquelynne Lee:

It's really normal for parents to want to protect their kids from the worry and the stress of a disaster or a drought, and also to maybe find it hard to talk about themselves, but children know when something's wrong. Even babies and young children, they can pick up on vocal tone and emotional energy. Without the facts, children will make up their own meaning about what's happening. And often because of their developmental stage, those meanings are often centred around themselves. So, for example, if they can tell that you're upset and they don't know why you're upset, they might think that it's because of something that they said or did. So, it's really important to have age-appropriate conversations with your child about the situation, which will help them to manage those feelings and worries.

Drew Radford:

So, Jacqui, what might those conversations look like?

Jacquelynne Lee:

It's important to be patient and make time to regularly check in and talk with your child about the situation, how they're feeling. Sometimes they might not feel like talking in that moment. Let them know that that's okay and that you'll be there when they are ready to talk. And sometimes they might pick a really busy moment to talk, which can be frustrating and inconvenient, but it's really important to try to take a second to stop and listen because it might be the only time that your child feels comfortable to talk.

And in those conversations, it can be helpful to acknowledge the challenges and the impact that the disaster is having on your family and your community, but also to stay positive as much as you can and hopeful about the future. And don't worry if you don't have all the answers. If you're stuck for words, you might say something like, "I can't answer that, but I love you and we're going to get through this." Or you might offer to look for the answer together with your child, and then that's another opportunity for you guys to connect.

Drew Radford:

The last part in this framework, the S in PERCS is support networks. Now, I imagine this is almost just as important for the parents as it is for the children in times of crisis.

Jacquelynne Lee:

Absolutely. So, we say that a drought or a disaster is a whole of family, a whole of community issue, which essentially means that everyone has a role to play in supporting children during an event like that. And we also know that disasters and difficult times can be quite isolating for families, so having trusted adults outside of the family who can look out for your child can significantly reduce their risk of mental health difficulties because sometimes children and young people might feel more comfortable sharing their thoughts and feelings and worries with a friend or a friend's parents, or their teacher, or their sporting coach, especially if they're worried about not adding to your stress as a parent or your family's stress. This is especially important for teenagers because they're growing more independent from their parents and family and looking to establish their identity outside of that immediate family unit, so it is really important to help children to identify and build their own support network or support team.

To do that, you might ask questions like, "Outside of our family, who do you like to have fun with? Who do you feel safe with? If you were sad or worried about something, who could you talk to? Or if you had a problem or you felt upset at school, which adult could you go to?" And then once they've identified the people in that team, we also want them to think about the role that they want each person to play. So maybe grandma is someone that they go to when they don't want to talk about their problems, they just want a hug, and a soft drink, and just to feel loved and safe.

You mentioned the support networks are really important for parents too, especially when they're dealing with a lot of uncertainty and stress. And we know that it can be uncomfortable to ask for help, and there's often still this pervasive idea that we should be able to cope alone or that we don't want to burden others who are also doing it tough. But it's really important to remember that the people around us, they usually want to help. They care about us, and often they're just waiting to be asked. So, talking with a trusted friend, a family member, or even a professional, whether that's your local GP or a counsellor, there are lots of helplines available.

Talking with someone about your concerns and frustrations can help you to come to terms with the uncertainty of the disaster or the drought. And the more that you can open up and talk with others, the more those difficult emotions will slowly but surely fade. And then that will leave room for you to find ways to cope with that uncertainty, but also put the time and energy that you want to into those other parts of PERCS, your relationship with your children, your family routines, those conversations to support your child's meaning-making.

Drew Radford:

That's arguably a really good bit of advice to finish up on, Jacqui. You really want to have the time and the energy to put into the rest of this framework. Jacqui, it's an excellent framework. It mapped it out very clearly for me. We have though covered a lot of ground. Where can people go to find out more information?

Jacquelynne Lee:

Parents can head to emergingminds.com.au and click on the Families tab. There they'll find a lot more information about the PERCS, but also a bunch of free resources all designed to help them to support and nurture their children's mental health. And I should note as well that this information, while it's geared towards parents, it can be beneficial for anyone who has kids in their life whom they care about and want to support, and those resources and the Emerging Minds website also has a list of helplines and support services that adults can reach out to if they are having a tough time and want someone to talk to.

Drew Radford:

Well, Jacqui, this is a wonderful framework that would be of enormous help at any time, but particularly so during a time of crisis. For now, though, Jacqui Lee from Emerging Minds, thank you so much for taking the time and joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Jacquelynne Lee:

Thanks so much for having me, Drew.

Speaker 1:

If you'd like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Pulling 15-hour days in a header is something that's still occasionally bragged about. However, later wrapping it around a tree while having a fatigue-induced nana-nap is rarely ever mentioned. G’day, I'm Drew Radford, and trashing equipment, or worse, permanent injury or death can be the deadly results of fatigue. Fortunately, though, farmers are getting a lot better at managing it. That's thanks in part to people like Simon Craig, who manages a broad-acre grain and sheep farm in Kooloonong in North-western Victoria. He's changed his practices to reduce fatigue on the property. While improved safety was the desired outcome, the unexpected ones were a better work-life balance and numerous productivity gains. So much so that in between running the property, Simon now presents to other farmers about the gains he's made from managing fatigue on the farm. He joins me for this AgVic Talk podcast. Hello, Simon.

Simon Craig:

Hi Drew, how are you doing? Pleasure to be here.

Drew Radford:

I'm great, thanks, Simon. It's great to have you here as well. Simon, you manage the property, but your background wasn't growing up with dust on your boots, was it?

Simon Craig:

No, it's a strange upbringing. I really enjoyed going to family friends' places who had farms and always wanted to be part of it, but sort of resigned my fact that I'd never have a farm or work on a farm. But as time went on with school and went to University day and they said, "Well, the job offer is really attractive in agriculture, you should do that instead of wanting to be a vet." So, I went into Ag Science at La Trobe and first job out was the Birchip Cropping Group. I sort of fell in love with farming quite quickly and became an agronomist and then met my lovely wife, Lisa, who had a family farm up at Kooloonong in the Mallee and became the farm manager there.

Drew Radford :

What are you running on the farm?

Simon Craig:

We have about a seven and a half thousand hectare property spread over two locations, Nyah West and Kooloonong, predominantly dry land broad acre cropping, so wheat, barley, canola, lentils, chickpeas, lupins and vetch and hay, of course. We do have sheep. Currently at the moment, we have about 350 breeding ewes and close to about 1,500 prime lambs fattening up in the feedlot. The sheep are more opportunistic and we use them at a lower level. That's my wife's passion, but I'm slowly becoming quite passionate about running them, too.

Drew Radford:

Simon, with 7,000 hectares and all that going on, there's a lot there for you to do and that's an understatement. And I imagine with that comes fatigue. When I was doing some research for this, I looked at the definition of fatigue and I always thought it was another word for tired but it's a lot more than that though, isn't it?

Simon Craig:

Yeah, it is. And look, I've reviewed it a lot and thought about how to manage fatigue and been advised by experts in the field, you can only work a certain amount of hours and got to have two days break, but everyone's a bit different. And I personally am a person that leaves doing the essay until the last night and works really hard on that one night. So, the same sort of happens with what motivates me to get jobs done and clicks my brain into gear and they call that adrenaline. And the adrenaline is really good, it pumps in a lot of endorphins and positivity into your body, but then it'll just stop like that overnight.

And I had that one time where I was driving a seeder and I just sort of just fell asleep and woke up. I had no inclination that I was going to fall asleep, I just blanked out. And luckily it was not very far or anything like that, but it's that driving all day, doing exactly the same thing. If I did the same amount of hours doing several different types of jobs in and out of a car, I'm probably not too bad. I feel quite fresh, mentally stimulated. But if I'm doing the same job, particularly if the sun's beaming in or something like that, I can feel very fatigued quickly.

For me personally, it's about identifying the signs of fatigue, what's going to drive you and not set unrealistic targets like trying to get 10 more hectares, trying to get that through to the staff, that 10 more hectares can lead to $600,000 header, $700,000 header being stopped, broken down for two weeks. And we'll pick up the 10 hectares tomorrow pretty easily, just go home. And the other thing we've got between the two farms, we've got another hour of travelling home and travelling to work on top of the day, so we've identified that too, and put into place, should they be working longer and they want to have a nap, go home or just stay at the accommodation, they stay at the accommodation.

Drew Radford:

You've pointed out rightly there that the fatigue issue, if you damage your $600,000 header, well, then you're in a world of strife. Before that as well, I'm sure you identified it's personal injury as well and your potential liability as a farm operator for that.

Simon Craig:

Absolutely. And look, that's something we hope never happens. And a lot of people, you can really emphasize that it is for their own good, but you are dealing with, particularly in my case, we got seasonal backpackers who are at that high risk sort of game where the young guys don't really value lives as much and that doesn't say you underestimate it, under play it, but that sort of you're dealing with someone who, they're not cautious, they don't think about those things. They want to look at getting it done. And that is a challenge, but particularly now that I'm in my 40s and I've got young family, I'm very aware of those risks and wanting everyone to come home.

But a young person like that, they're still going to do silly things that you don't know about, that you got to pick the right people and the right sort of culture to make a change and impact to make everyone safe. But personal health, yes, it's a big thing. We've known a couple of farms around us that have had accidents where workers have died, and the process with that has just destroyed those farms. Not only the disappointment and the sadness of losing someone that you probably know and work with closely, but also then, the investigation and the thought, what's going to happen to you and the farm through prosecution and responsibility ?

It's just one of the things family farms don't really have all the processes in place that they should have that a corporate business or a shoe shop in Swan Hill is required to have to protect staff and visitors. And that's why we're trying to promote a more positive thing for farmers to approach farm safety. And fatigue is a major one that is such a tricky aspect to articulate because someone could be fatigued from two hours of work and you don't know that, so you've really got to pick up your staff and get them to understand the culture and the signs of fatigue.

Drew Radford:

Well, I understand you actually talk to people about this.

Simon Craig:

We have a local Landcare group that a neighbour and I passionately drive topics that we think are relevant to the region and we've had a couple of sessions now with WorkSafe and ORM, and we've also had a couple of harvest, pre-harvest safety days where we've inducted informally, everyone's backpackers, where we'd like to form a basic understanding of how they should use augers, how they should use headers and chaser bins and what are some of the safety features around them.

And also first aid and fire preparation and stuff like that and fighting fires, just gives them a basic understanding and sort of sets the agenda for the farm owner or manager to sort of take them home and say, "Hey, you had a good day there. These are some of the things now you've got to consider back here at our place." We're only a small Landcare group, but we try and do it. So, I think the more people come out and speak about it, the more awareness we'll create.

Drew Radford:

Well, I understand you even got a bit of feedback from one of your former backpackers at one of those meetings about how much you've changed your attitude in regards to this, so it's been a journey for you.

Simon Craig:

Yeah, that's right. We had one Danish guy who went back home and then came and worked for a friend of mine, and they happened to show them the video that I did for WorkSafe on fatigue management and he actually replied back to me and said, "Hey, I used to work 18 hour days, all of harvest. What's going on?" And had a lot more grey hairs than what I used to so he was laughing about that, too. But back when he was there, I felt I had to prove to staff, I had a young family and I was new to the farm management role and pushing those long hours, trying to get the farm done in record time and tick that box there.

I'd be coming home at 5:00 in the morning and then the kids would be up an hour later or half an hour later, climbing all over me because they hadn't seen me. And then some days I'd probably only had three hours sleep, of which then only one would be a quality. So, it wasn't much fun and I didn't enjoy those harvests in the end and I probably missed a lot of time with my family. So yeah, looking back now, I've certainly made a number of changes which has made my enjoyment of harvest and sowing much more pleasure.

Drew Radford:

Simon, it begs the question, which beyond most farmers' minds is, "Well, if I don't work those long hours, I'm not going to make as much money, or I've got to pay somebody and I'm not going to make as much money." But you have found productivity gains that offset that, I understand.

Simon Craig:

When I was doing it by myself and a couple of other guys, I found myself being so fatigued in the morning, I wasn't able to set the agenda as clearly for the guys coming in the morning shift. And sometimes there were issues that arise that someone needed to go to town to pick up parts or the mechanic was coming out and there was probably a lot of inefficiencies that started to be created when I was as the key managerial person, once I was sort of out of it or not quite in the field at the time, it became disorganised and inefficient. So, I think it was about 2021 or '22, we started carrying at least two more backpackers and we ran a night shift and a day shift with more structured shift times and the day shift would come in and set up the grain storage for the night.

We made the nighttime runs be more friendly for the night shift, no power poles, no trees or anything like that. We gave them nice long runs and we'd set the grain storage up nice and close so they didn't have to do physically, many things at night, which is obviously a hazard, not being able to see things. And then what we did do out of that by carrying more staff, I found myself, I was more available to do summer spraying. I was able to keep a couple of paddocks under control as we harvested through them. I've done seed cleaning in the middle of the harvest just to have it all ready.

So, after harvest when all the backpackers go to Bondi Beach or something, well, I don't have a mountain of work to do after harvest as well. I was able to get numbers to my grain broker as well and he was able to possibly pick up some fresh contracts to come off the header and go to Melbourne and we had truck drivers that were able to cart down there. So, there's been plenty of things that we've been able to do if someone's got sheep in earlier when the price is still low and hasn't gone up, to graze stubbles or go into a feedlot. So, there's been plenty of things I've found beneficial by carrying more staff during harvest that's freed me up to do other jobs to add value to that harvest window.

Drew Radford:

Certainly, doesn't sound like you've gone backwards from bringing more people on, and you've got a much better quality of life.

Simon Craig:

Absolutely. And like now, I see my kids, I get to have dinner with them most nights during those times and I go back out, sometimes just to check on the boys. We now bring dinner out to the guys and they're all happy because they're not fatigued going home. Overall, it's a much better lifestyle and yeah, it does cost you a little bit more in wages, but as we've spoken, the cost of a header replacement or a person's life being gone or injured, that costs a lot more than you think. So, by carrying that extra staff member, you end up enjoying it and you get time to think and review and suddenly there's not a mountain of work after harvest, which ends up costing you money as well if you're not done on time.

Drew Radford:

Well, it's the old adage that the most important asset on a farm is the farmer, the bloke that's running it or the woman that's running it. At the moment, you've probably had this magnified a little bit in terms of being able to have time to deal with things because you're there raising the kids by yourself because your wife's off dealing with back surgery. I can't imagine you being in a position to deal with this, say 10 years ago.

Simon Craig:

No, we've got seeders being essentially put together or tested out. And you mentioned my wife. Yeah, she had to carry a lot of burden in those years, looking after three kids. And she had a bad back through farming and sheep work and childbirth, and I'm having to see all her hard work now by having to do it myself and they do an amazing job. We always focus when we talk about fatigue, on the working people, but you've got to think about the people at home doing all that by themselves as well. And they're fatigued and new young babies, they're not getting much sleep either. So, it's not just fatigue on the tractor, it's also back at home.

Drew Radford:

Simon, what resources and information have you found useful?

Simon Craig:

It's having the contacts, VFF when they first had their farm safety free audit on farm, that was sort of my first experience with it. He gave us all the resources and said, "Hey, you are aware of all these obligations you should have as a farm manager and owners?" And sort of shock-waved us into action. We've had the documents before, but I use a program called Safe Ag Systems because it's an online app platform that any young person who has an iPhone, well, all the resources are there about any policies, procedures, any checklists. Checking over a machine, the pre-start check is important but having a log of that is also important. So that platform allows staff to take a photo of the QR code or scan the QR code on the tractor.

And then I've developed a template for each tractor that says, "Have you checked the oil and water? Are the tyres all good? Are you personally fit and able to drive the tractor?" And they've ticked all that, so that gives me a really good record without me having to go and type, three days of typing data into the computer or finding out at the end of harvest they didn't check the tractors over at all. That Safe Ag System has been a really good platform for me to get the office stuff sorted out and for me to start getting staff constantly doing the operations checks that need to be done.

That's another resource but there's so many people now coming out to be available for farms that the resources are there through AgVic, WorkSafe now with OHS Essentials, ORM, BCG, everyone's got these resources, VFF now. It's just about farmers not being afraid to go and do these steps towards policies and procedures and OHS Essentials sort of stuff that you need to have on the farm now I think, because you don't want to get caught out where you have injuries and then someone rocks up on your place and says, "Hey, can I see your policy and procedures for this particular chemical spill?" If you have nothing, I think it's looking really bad now, so when there's that much awareness out there.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, Simon, what advice or top few tips would you give to other farmers or farm managers wanting to improve their fatigue management practices?

Simon Craig:

I think we've just got to change the dialogue to say getting it done safely is the most important title we should be as farmers, promoting, and not worrying about how many acres we're doing per day. Yeah, sure, those things come out, machines and investments and everything else like that, but you can only do what you can do and every farmer's different in their own complexities. So, the advice I would say to people is when you have down times in your business, that's when you should be investing in managing staff and setting the target of having a safer farm than what it is. Don't get daunted by the amount of stuff you think you need to do. You just need to have some good management practices of how to deal with the situation should it arise. Start talking to your guys at a toolbox meeting, they call it. Just raise, "Hey, is there anything you guys see that probably needs fixing this week or something needs safer?"

And by keep asking the question, the guys start thinking about it and they keep bringing up new ideas. Embrace it and say, "Yep, we'll get it fixed this week," or "I'll speak to that mechanic, and we'll get that tuned up next week. People become aware and then all of a sudden, the farm is safer. And I think when we come to fatigue management, that's just another continuum of that where they'll realise that "Geez, I'm getting tired. Simon's not going to yell at me, so I'm not finishing the last 10 hectares. If I just say, 'Sorry, I'm tired, I need a rest day or a night earlier,'" I'm never going to knock them on the head or anything like that. I'm going to encourage it, say, "Hey, well done, mate." And if you do that, that makes your farm safer in my opinion. So, I encourage farmers to take a positive attitude when they have staff doing that, and then you'll find they work harder for you where possible, more efficiently.

Drew Radford:

Simon, it certainly does sound like you've got a great result from the focus that you've put on to managing fatigue and making your property safer. For now, though, Simon Craig, manager of Lemac Farm, thank you so much for taking the time and joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Simon Craig:

No worries, Drew. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

If you'd like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up-to-date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Shearing is often cited as one of, if not the most physically demanding jobs there is. It can also be a dangerous one. G’day, I'm Drew Radford, and the good news is that conditions for shearers have been improving considerably in recent years. That's thanks, in part, to initiatives like Australian Wool Innovation's SafeSheds program, and also work by people like Jason Letchford. Jason is secretary for the Shearing Contractors Association of Australia, and he joins me in the AgVic Talk studio. Thanks for your time.

Jason Letchford:

My pleasure, Drew.

Drew Radford:

Jason, what do you reckon are the key safety issues at the moment for the shearing industry?

Jason Letchford:

The biggest one is musculoskeletal, anything to do with the body. Back injuries is the one that obviously springs to mind, shoulder injuries and knee injuries, all parts of our body that wear out. When you are a shearer, you're using your body physically to the limit, you could say. They burn more calories in a day than any other worker on the planet. Clearly, that exertion factor is wearing out bodies.

Having an animal involved, kicking, moving around, that creates safety issues because a shearer uses this piece of dangerous equipment called a handpiece, and there's a comb and cutter or a blade, if you like, on the front of it, going 3,000 RPM. So, if the worker ever loses control of that handpiece, then the consequences are quite severe. So, we do have cuts, cut injuries, and it's very hard for us to engineer those sorts of things out. But the thing that happens more often is workers going into the catching pen, or shearers going into the catching pen, and trying to grab the next sheep to go and shear it. The stress and tension on their body by doing that twisting and turning action to roll a sheep over onto its bum and drag them out is really hard on the body and that's where a lot of that problem comes along.

Drew Radford:

What about exposure to viruses and noise, and chemical? What about those things?

Jason Letchford:

Chemicals, they've been removed from the shearing shed probably more than 20 years ago. Farmers used to use the shearing shed. I mean, they're a great building, obviously to store things in when you've only got shearers in there a couple of weeks of the year, and that was a chemical storage area, so there was that issue. There was also the drenches and the dips, and also, the other chemicals that you put on sheep to get rid of lice, or maybe if there is a cut to avoid infection. They've basically been banned from the workplace, so we've eliminated that risk out of it.

The other one that we're having is an increasing problem is Q fever. That is an animal-borne or dust-borne disease. It's a virus, and when a worker gets that, it's significant, and they come down with a nasty fever. It's almost, I think malaria-like, and it lasts with them for quite a period of time. Fortunately, there is a vaccine for it. However, there's been issues over the years with supply, and also, we have this financial dilemma with it, where it takes two trips to a doctor to actually get a Q fever vaccination. One, you've got to go in and make sure that you haven't had the virus or you haven't been vaccinated in the past, and there's a test for that, and then those results have to go away, and then come back, and then if you are up for the vaccination, then you follow up with that. Now, that costs money, and it costs time, and getting workers who are casuals to actually go and do that, the dilemma between the employer paying for it, and then the worker moving off and doesn't show them any loyalty to that, that's one of the problems, and also, just the workers who were in the industry all the time, actually on the flip side, seeing value in paying several hundred dollars for a vaccination. So that's one of the areas that we certainly can try and make some inroads in the future.

Drew Radford:

Jason, how can improved shearing shed safety impact on productivity?

Jason Letchford:

Any worker who's been injured, well, obviously, they can't work. And as most people know shearers are paid by what they do. We call it piece-rate work, is it straightaway, that worker has lost their income. They may be compensated down the track for loss of time, but more importantly, for the farmer and the shearing contractor is they don't have a worker there, working in that. And what most people know, worked in agriculture the last few years or even heard in the general media, there's been a huge shortage of shearers.

So, if we injure a worker, we basically can't replace them. So, there's straightaway a financial cost at all levels, and so preventing injuries and preventing accidents is paramount from just even the financial perspective if you're not talking about the actual human side of things.

Drew Radford:

On that point, Jason, there have been some serious incidents and fatalities in recent years. Have they led to changes in the industry as a result?

Jason Letchford:

They have, Drew. Yes. We've had three significant scenarios. It's worth noting because it did change the landscape. Unfortunately, a young shearer died of blood loss back in 2011 in South Australia, and that was due to a cut and not being able to get to hospital, and that's referring back to that handpiece.

That wasn't publicised. And, I mean, it's a tragedy for the family, and the friends and anyone involved, but the double tragedy of it was that it wasn't publicised widely enough to let people know that using a shearing handpiece is a life-threatening bit of equipment, and every possible way that we can actually make that safe should be implemented.

Then, the second tragedy that's worth being aware of was a young lady was a visitor to a shearing shed in New South Wales in 2018. She thought she would help out, and she jumped up a butt of wool, like that's a half-filled bale of wool, and her hair, her ponytail got caught around the exposed moving shaft, which is a very old-fashioned way of shearing sheep nowadays. But unfortunately, that shaft caught her hair and it scalped her, and it was horrible and horrific for the young lady. She lived through that, but I mean, she has got to live with that medical condition for the rest of her life, and then also, the mental scarring for the people that work with her has been tragic.

And the last one was only in 2023, where we had a man that was crushed by a wool press, and that's still going through an investigation process for the outcomes of that, and that was over in Western Australia. So, the double tragedy is when something like that occurs, and the potential for it to occur again still exists, so ... And one of the things is that overhead shearing gear it's rare, but it still exists in certain pockets and certain farms that haven't moved on. And there is equipment out there called the EVO shearing plant, and it basically has this safety device that stops immediately that that handpiece hits an impediment, because a lot of the trouble is as soon as a handpiece hits, say a stick or metal ear tags, for example, it'll, what they call lock-up, flies out of the worker's hand, and then as soon as it's released from the worker's hand or from the impediment, it starts operating again, and so you have this weapon flying through the air that is life-threatening and could cut anyone or anything that it lands on.

So, what a seatbelt is to a vehicle nowadays is what that piece of EVO shearing plant is, and most people are aware of it. Most shearing sheds use it. The other side to it, Drew, is it's much quieter. It has less vibration. Noise and vibration have long-term impacts, as most people know, on workers’ health, and it only costs per machine a couple of thousand dollars. In terms of something that will last 50 years, that piece of equipment that's looked after it's a really small investment.

Drew Radford:

Equipment like that is a great advance, but you're alluding to a central issue there, cost. So, is that a key challenge in implementing shearing shed safety, or are there other challenges?

Jason Letchford:

The challenge there, Drew, is the shearing contractor and/or the shearer when they're working on the farmer side, they don't own that premises or lease it. So, if you had a factory, for example, and you own it, obviously buying the right and the best equipment for you to use and your workers who you have an insurance policy on, a workers' comp policy, then it makes really good sense. The challenge with the shearing industry is that all workers go to that site, and if the farmer’s got a third-party, what we call a shearing contractor, who’s actually paying the workers and it’s their insurance policy, the challenging part is that, that shearing contractor doesn't get to choose what equipment's in that.

So, the shearing contractor, quite often, is in this dilemma, where on one hand, they're the salesperson. They want to get the job for next year, but they also have to be, let's call it the safety officer, where they say to the farmer, ‘Hey, mate, unfortunately that equipment that you got in here, the overhead shearing plant, or the wool press, or this or that,’ or it might be the steps or the power or things like that, is they've actually got to say to the farmer, ‘This is below standard, and we can't work here anymore.’

And sometimes, unfortunately, the farmer says, ‘Oh, right. Well, there's someone else is, so on your bike, mate.’ Now that's rare and that sounds harsh, but unfortunately, it's a little bit more subtle than what I just described, but it does happen. So that's one of our challenges.

Drew Radford:

Obviously though, there's progress being made in certain quarters. So, can you share any success stories or examples of effective collaboration that's led to improved safety?

Jason Letchford:

WorkSafe Victoria did an initiative with the industry, where they engaged a consultant who was a shearer for much of his working life, and then he went off to university and became qualified in health and safety, and they engaged him to go around and do shearing shed inspections. He worked with us and the Victorian farmers, and it was a free visit, and he basically went through shearing sheds and gave farmers a really practical list of ways they can improve their shearing shed environments for their workers, and they did that. And farmers love a list of jobs to do, because if you say, "Oh, can you just fix things up?," in general, it's very difficult, but if you have a nice itemised list, it could be anything from locks on the doors in the living quarters, or putting in overhead shearing plant. That improved Victorian shearing sheds to no end. I'll make the bold statement without evidence, that Victorian shearing sheds became the best shearing sheds as a general rule in the country because of that program.

The other thing that the Victorian WorkSafe authority also did at the time or similar time, was they actually had a grant situation to install what we call back harness fixing points, so a shearer has the option of shearing through a back harness. And what that is, is that's a spring-loaded harness. It's like a large strap that goes across your rib cage, and it's hung from the ceiling, and it's on three big springs, and when you bend over, it takes some of the load off your back, and you continue to shear your sheep without loading up all the discs in your back. It's a great physical asset to that worker. But one of the issues when they first got popularised is they didn't necessarily have safe fixing point.

They were looping them over rafters and doing all these sort of ad hoc measures. And what WorkSafe Victoria helped us with was get these fixing points and the harnesses at a subsidised price into all Victorian shearing sheds. So that's an option for all workers. So, they were two great examples of what happened in Victoria.

Drew Radford:

What recommendation would you give to any shearing contractor and worker to improve safety in their operation?

Jason Letchford:

Use the rule that if something goes wrong in your work environment, how do you explain it to the parents of the man or woman who might've been severely injured or even died, how you did everything in your control to actually, what was reasonable and practicable are the words, to actually remove that safety hazard from that work environment? So, if you're a farmer and you're looking for guidance, use that guidance there to go, "What in this workplace could actually hurt or injure someone?," or you could simplify that into what I call the son and daughter test. "Would you let your son or daughter work in here? How could that possibly be hurt? What could you do to make improvements to minimise that risk to them?"

Drew Radford:

That's Jason Letchford from The Shearing Contractors Association of Australia. Australian Wool Innovation is also focused on this issue with their SafeSheds program. Key to delivering it is Craig French. He's AWI's National Manager for Wool Harvesting Training & Careers Development. When he's not on the road for AWI, he's running a flock of his own.

Craig French:

Yes, I've got a property. It's only a small property, but we run sheep and about 25 kilometres east of Dubbo.

Drew Radford:

And I love the fact that you weren't even born on a farm. A long way from it.

Craig French:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Northern beaches of Sydney, but that's a long time ago. But certainly have enjoyed since leaving school. A lot of time in Queensland and New South Wales, and now working for Australian Wool Innovation, which is really, quite a privilege, to be honest.

Drew Radford:

What do you actually do with Australian Wool Innovation? How did you end up in that role?

Craig French:

Well, my background has been with wool and with wool brokering, wool classing, teaching at TAFE, and wool exporting. I've always had a range of different roles within wool. But five years ago, I got asked to come and join the team, and I took that opportunity, and my role has been to manage the training for shearing and wool handling across the country.

Drew Radford:

You're a bloke that's certainly been around the wool game for a while. What are some of the key health, safety, and well-being challenges for the shearing and wool industry?

Craig French:

First and foremost, I feel that the conditions are reasonable in Australia for the wool harvesting teams, but they can always be better. There's been a lot of good work done from AWI and other companies to try to make resources available for growers, but yeah, we need to make those facilities as safe as possible. And I think they are probably as the best in the world as for shearers, and for wool handlers, and wool classes working in sheds, and it depends on how many sheep that growers have. Sometimes you can overinvest in shearing sheds, and you don't have to spend a lot of money to put a new shearing shed up. You can improve old, existing sheds.

Drew Radford:

We’ll drill down into that in a moment, and maybe a question that I should have asked before. Is there anything that happened in your career so far that's highlighted to you the importance of a safe shearing shed?

Craig French:

There has been. I've been to a lot of different sheds, worked in a lot of different sheds, and probably for me, there's no serious injuries luckily and thankfully, but we have had fatalities in the industry, so that's a concern. But just mostly, back injuries, handpiece lock-ups, dehydration, so there's definitely those minor injuries, but certainly still concerning injuries.

Drew Radford:

You are pretty central to AWI's SafeSheds program. Can you walk me through the main components of what that actually is and how it's aimed to improve safety in shearing sheds?

Craig French:

The AWI SafeSheds program is a very comprehensive booklet, but you can also download the SafeSheds app through SafetyCulture. And what's good about having that on your phone or your tablet is that you can walk through different modules of the SafeSheds program, so you can look at the actual facilities, you can look at the machinery. If it's a campout shed, for example, you can look at all those different parts of the shearing operation, and there's lots of different checklists that you can look at, a pre-shearing checklist, an induction checklist, a post-shearing checklist. I think, for me, the most important thing is to have growers communicating well with their service provider or contractor. So, it's not difficult to say at the end of shearing, "Hey, how did everything go? Is there any improvements you'd like us to make between now and next time you come?," and having that conversation, just being transparent and open, and asking the team what might need to be improved.

Drew Radford:

They do seem like common sense conversations, and I've had a bit of a look at it. A lot of it's pictorially-driven. I mean, you've got photographs of sheds, which are good, and you've got photographs of examples, dodgy gates and stuff that aren't so good.

Craig French:

That's correct. As I said, it's quite a comprehensive document, but what's good is just little things. Sometimes, and I'm generalising, but as growers, we tend to sort of think that the workers need the best facilities possible. Sometimes they don't expect the best facilities, they just want a safe operation, have an independent shearing head. Sometimes contractors and teams bring their own EVOs or overheads.

Have a safety mechanism on your wool press, pretty simple stuff. Have a designated grinding spot and having some eyewear there and some earmuffs there is important, rather than just a shearer putting the grinder on a wool bar, for example, can be quite unsafe.

Drew Radford:

When you start talking about, "Okay, we need improvements," people's thoughts immediately go to cost. But I'm wondering, does improved safety also help with productivity/profitability?

Craig French:

I believe so. That's my personal opinion, but it's difficult to prove that, Drew. So, I think that if you have a team that want to turn up, and you provide reasonable facilities that you're trying to assist and help that team, I do feel that they will shear your sheep to a better standard, and I do think that it'll be a happier place, a more positive place to work. And it could be just making sure that the catching pens are the right size or making sure that those gates are swing gates rather than sort of the more difficult gates to close when the pen's full. It could be AWI has put a lot of money into a raceway delivery, so there's less drag for the shearers, cumulative catch and drag puts a lot of stress and potential injuries, therefore, a lot of shearers may leave the industry early, lifted catching pens to make it a little bit easier for those sheep to be tipped over, horseshoe design. There's a lot of different tools out there for growers to look at to improve their facilities.

Drew Radford:

What are some of the quick cost-effective strategies you reckon farmers can implement in shearing sheds and livestock management to enhance safety?

Craig French:

The common sense things like good lighting, good ventilation, have good access to water, have a fridge available for the workers, those simple things, the safety things, I think the standards, having an independent EVO, as I said, and having a decent woolpress with a safety bar. Obviously bigger cost would be the raceway delivery or a new shearing shed, but I think what's important is to just have that discussion depending on what type of sheep you're running, how many sheep you've got. A lot of growers might have two or three or four properties and over-investing in all of those properties. So, the modular raceway delivery is designed so that you could put three or four or five or six of those together and then move those to the properties when needed. So, there's different options there for growers.

Drew Radford:

Craig, does this also feed back into insurance liability for farmers?

Craig French:

We have a duty of care, and if there's an injury or fatality, then the grower is involved in that. We can't walk away from that. Even if we've contracted the shed out to a local contractor, we have that shared duty of care to look after the workers, and it's really important that we have that conversation and we just look at it. And some sheds are only used for one or two weeks a year. So I understand a lot of growers might feel that, "I'm not going to over-invest, I'm not going to really worry too much about my shed because I'm only using it two weeks a year," but for the people that come in and do the work for the one or two weeks a year have to go from shed to shed to shed for the whole year, and we have to think, "If we were working in those sheds, what would we expect?"

Drew Radford:

I think that's a great insight, Craig. "Would you want your kids working in there?," for one of a better description might be another way of looking at that.

Craig French:

Yeah, that's a very good point, Drew. I mean, I think that's so true, and we do want to encourage a pathway, and training's a big part of that, and we're trying to promote the industry as a positive profession, improve the culture. There's three Cs that I call it, that could improve the industry. Communication's one. Conditions and facilities is number two. And if we can improve and make them safer and improve those conditions, we'll have a lot better opportunity for young people to want to come into the industry, and number three is continuity of work. So, if we had those three Cs, then our industry's in safe hands, I feel.

Drew Radford:

Craig, you've mentioned some of the resources. You also mentioned training. How can woolgrowers and contractors access things like training?

Craig French:

Training's a big part of what we do with Australian Wool Innovation, and the best way to access the training is to either come directly to myself. People can reach out to me at craig.french@wool.com. They're certainly happy to have a trainer, whether it's wool handling training or shear training, but our trainers really encourage the sheep to be obviously shorn as well as possible, but then also, for the shearers, to be able to keep the weight of the sheep off them, train them to the way that they can feel like it's less work on their body.

Drew Radford:

What are your top three tips for ensuring safety is the priority in shearing sheds?

Craig French:

Talk to your service provider or contractor to ask them what needs to be improved in the shearing shed, because they're working in that shearing shed every minute of every day for that wool harvesting period of time. Number two is do a checklist. Go through and do a bit of a look at all your equipment. Make sure that it's working safely. Make sure you've got your appropriate safety bars on your wool press, independent EVOs.

If you want to make some additional improvements, you could put some auto switch, cut-off switches in, where if someone's in trouble, you can automatically cut that handpiece from continuing to go. The third tip for safety would be to walk through the shed as if you're a sheep coming into the shed to be shorn, and as you're walking through, you can pick up areas that are of a concern. And if you go through the shed like the sheep, then things stand out, and if you don't go through that, then you're not going to know if there's any problems.

Drew Radford:

I reckon taking the sheep's perspective is a fantastic way to wrap this interview up, Craig. It's a really unique insight and a valuable one as well. For now though, Craig French, thank you so much for taking the time and joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Craig French:

Thank you for the opportunity, and I wish you all the best, and keep safe, everyone.

Speaker 1:

If you'd like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about Farm Safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Announcer:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Disability and farming are not often put in the same sentence. Fortunately, though, that's changing. G'day, I'm Drew Radford, and that's partly due to the work of an organisation called Ability Agriculture. In this episode, we're going to find out about some of the people behind that and what they're trying to achieve. Nigel Corish was the 2023 Farmer of the Year, and among the many hats he wears, he's also Chair of Ability Agriculture, and he joins me in the AgVic Talk studio. Nigel, thanks for your time.

Nigel Corish:

Thank you, Drew. Good to be here with you.

Drew Radford:

Nigel, where do you farm and what do you farm?

Nigel Corish:

I'm farming up at a place called Condamine on the Western Darling Downs. We're broadacre farmers, both irrigated and dryland farming. Cotton's our main irrigation crop. Then, cereals and pulses are our main dryland crops we grow.

Drew Radford:

I understand that farming runs pretty deep in your veins. It's in your DNA.

Nigel Corish:

Yeah, it definitely is, Drew. We're fourth-generation farmers, starting out with my great-grandfather in Central New South Wales after the first World War, after he drew a soldier settlement block. Then, followed through to my grandparents and then my parents moved up to Goondiwindi in the border of Queensland/New South Wales, and now all my siblings. I've got two older brothers and a twin sister all involved with agriculture, so it certainly runs deep in the DNA.

Drew Radford:

Certainly does, and that's a lovely story that all your siblings continue to farm, but you are no slouch. I imagine your siblings aren't either, but you in particular, if I go through your CV, Nuffield Scholar, Cotton Farmer of the Year, youngest ever from what I understand, and Weekly Times Coles Australian Farmer of the Year in 2023. You've achieved way more than most farmers, but you've also done this with a disability. What is your disability, Nigel?

Nigel Corish:

I've got cerebral palsy, Drew. I was born with cerebral palsy, which for those listeners that don't know is a form of brain damage and it affects the right side of my body. If you liken it to having bad cramping or what we like to call tone, and so I don't have very good control of my muscles. Basically, they're turned on all the time, so there's a lot of muscle tone that makes doing day-to-day tasks very difficult. Very limited with my right hand, with my hand use and my leg gets quite cramped quickly, so yeah, sort of playing sport and so forth makes it quite difficult for me as well.

Drew Radford:

You have played sport a lot in your life as well, though, from what I understand.

Nigel Corish:

Yeah, definitely, Drew. It was a fantastic outcome for me, and luckily my parents threw me into absolutely everything at a very young age. I guess quite unique being born with a disability. I didn't know anything different, so basically for my younger years, yeah, I just thought I was just a normal kid running around having a great time. It wasn't until probably my teenage years and later on in life that suddenly I couldn't keep up with my friends, and suddenly the realisation of a disability really kicked in.

I just had to do things differently and think outside the box, whether that was riding motorbikes and push bikes around the farm and trying to tie my own shoelace, those sort of day-to-day challenges that really threw a spanner in the works for me on some days, but I guess that's a real attribute with people with a disability. They can think outside the box and find solutions for everyday problems.

Drew Radford:

I love that perspective, but I understand there was a bit of a light bulb moment for you as well in terms of perseverance. I found a lovely quote where you said, "It wasn't until that stage in my life where I realised I put so much pressure on myself to be normal, I hadn't really accepted that I'd had a disability and wasn't sort of comfortable about talking about it. Once I accepted that my life changed forever." How?

Nigel Corish:

Definitely did, Drew. We have to thank Josie Clarke a lot for this because with all the accolades and achievements I made through my life, I actually tried to hide my disability to a certain extent. I didn't talk about it at all and certainly didn't bring it up in conversation. It wasn't until I did a leadership program with Josie Clarke and she had to come up with an idea, a project idea, a part of this leadership course. That's where Ability Agriculture sort of formed from, and she actually asked me directly if I ever have talked about my disability or opened up. I had to say, "No, it's something that's never been on my radar."

At that point in my life, I was quite ashamed that I had this wonderful story to tell and all these achievements and accolades, but I wasn't personally comfortable opening up about my own journey and challenges in life. I didn't realise the effect it had on particularly young people and young kids that not struggle, but were also experiencing the same challenges and they had someone to relate to and be sort of a mentor for them to overcome their challenges and live their day-to-day lives as normal.

Drew Radford:

That's quite a turnaround, isn't it, from something you're basically trying to hide or ignore maybe is a better term to actively talking about it and now advocating about it?

Nigel Corish:

Yeah, definitely, Dew, and I think it's just a case a lot of people in a disabled community just want to live their day-to-day lives as normal. We don't want to be treated anywhere different. We just want to be on a level playing field and be part of the broader community. Unfortunately, growing up in the '80s and '90s for me, people with a disability were certainly treated quite isolated, so I spent a lot of time outside the classroom getting support and being removed to go over to the, I guess, the special ed centre. Whether it was physiotherapy or speech therapy, I spent a lot of time outside the classroom. Hence, I felt very isolated as a kid, and I just wanted to be a part of the broader community.

Even the language has changed. When I was getting treatment as a child, I went up to what they used to call The Spastic Centre in Toowoomba and Brisbane. That's where people with particularly CP went to and got treatment. Yeah, that term was quite derogatory and, yeah, sort of explaining to your friends as a kid that you're off to The Spastic Centre to get treatment, that we've come a long way just from a language point of view and openness of around disability, which is good.

Drew Radford:

You've mentioned you just want to be part of that community and be accepted for who you are. That's not always easy, though, is it? You're going to face challenges when you're working particularly in agriculture on the land. What are some of the biggest challenges you’ve faced?

Nigel Corish:

Being disabled, I think there's quite a bit of stubbornness I would say that you don't want to ask for help and you do want to do it yourself. The old adjective, tell a disabled person that you can't do it, guaranteed that they'll find a way to do it. Irrigating with siphon pipes was a huge barrier for me to do my day-to-day jobs on farm. I just physically couldn't start a siphon pipe with one hand, so you'd sort of need both hands to start a siphon pipe. I actually went and visited the local OT and she came up with a great concept of just putting a splint on my arm that allowed me to start siphon pipes. Those little innovations and adaptations of sort of thinking outside the box really shone through that suddenly I could do a job that I previously couldn't.

Everything from greasing the tractors and machineries was a huge frustration on me and led into a lot of arguments with myself and frustrations where a job that probably takes someone half an hour probably took me two hours and I was just too proud to ask for help. When I opened up and asked for help, nine times out of 10, most people go out of their way to give someone else a hand and knowing that they're giving back. That was a huge turning point for me was asking for help and having that ability to get someone else to help you is quite a powerful tool.

Drew Radford:

You're putting so much pressure on yourself, and around that, I imagine there's a lot of misconceptions about people with disabilities working in agriculture as well that you are contending with.

Nigel Corish:

Yeah, definitely, Drew, and I think it's the challenge particularly around the physical challenges of working in agriculture, but what I've seen in my career that agriculture's changed, so particularly technologies and computers, that there's a wider range of jobs that can be done in agriculture. It's not just the physical jobs anymore, and if you look at my career, I haven't done any day-to-day farming activities for the last 10 years now and I've got a farm manager and team members in my business that I just do office work now and work remotely from the farm. It does goes to show there's plenty of different opportunities within agriculture. You just don't have to do the physical work.

Drew Radford:

You rightly point out there that there are so many more opportunities now. How can the agricultural industry become more inclusive and supportive of people with disabilities?

Nigel Corish:

Yeah, I think they just need to have an open book. It is very challenging to be open to someone with a disability coming into the business and working for them. One of the biggest barriers we found at Ability Agriculture is around the insurance of employing someone where there's a disability, but you just have to think outside the box and, I guess, go on the journey of employing someone with a disability because it is so rewarding. A, they're going to be so grateful that they've had the opportunity to be part of the workforce and their ability to innovate and think outside the box and the way the different strengths they bring to the business is going to be very rewarding for the employer.

Just need to be open and willing to give it a crack, I guess. There's plenty of government assistance and plenty of programs that get people into the workforce, and we need to give the people and employees the confidence to apply for these jobs and look at the opportunities that are out there in the workforce as well.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, Nigel, what advice would you give to someone with a disability who wants to pursue a career in agriculture?

Nigel Corish:

You have the confidence to put your hand up and have the conversation. Reflecting in my experience, I didn't think I had a future in farming just from the physical side of thing in those day-to-day activities, but certainly you go on this journey and there's opportunities that come up. It's all about putting your hand up and having that positive mindset of being able to do the job and asking for help when you need help. That's one of the biggest learnings I made out of my career is when you are faced with those challenges, you are brave enough to put up your hand and ask for help, and nine times out of 10 people will do it.

Drew Radford:

Nigel Corish has been brave enough to put up his hand and ask for help, and in the process, he's beaten a path for people with disabilities to seek work in the agricultural sector. As he mentioned, Josie Clarke helped him onto that path. Josie saw what her dad went through 20 years earlier after an accident resulted in him being in a wheelchair.

Josie Clarke:

We've always been beef cattle farmers, multigenerational. It's what we've always known and what we've always done, and 20-odd years ago it was just kind of thrown at Dad, "You need to retrain for a desk job and maybe getting out of farming is the best option." That's what we had to deal with, but it's something that we didn't want to give up, and Dad especially, it's all he'd ever known doing all those things and it's something that he always enjoyed. We were always looking out for how do we do this. Dad, who he's in a wheelchair now, how does he get out and be involved in our operation, but not necessarily being able to do the same activities that he used to do? What does that look like, especially when everyone else is kind of telling you, "Maybe it's just easier if you kind of give up on your industry?"

Drew Radford:

Well, it's certainly something you didn't give up on, none of the family did.

Josie Clarke:

No, absolutely, but I think the key thing to say, though, is that it wasn't without its challenges and frustrations. I think that was the biggest thing, learning to adapt and the resilience that's needed, but also admitting that, "Hey, it's okay to have a really crap day." I guess in a way mourn that kind of aspect of your life or your family's life that its trajectory has significantly changed. I guess our family's experience is not that uncommon for a lot of farming families and people that have been impacted by farm accidents. It's that feeling of kind of, "What do we do know? How do we do it?", but also it's okay to have that moment there to say, "Oh gosh, it's a bit of a crap day," or, "I wish I could still do these things," or, "I wish we could go do this." That's definitely a reality of adjusting from a major accident in agriculture and getting through it.

Drew Radford:

I want to talk about some of that adjustment as we go along, but what you saw your dad experience certainly didn't put you off agriculture by any sense, did it? You're in the process of handing your PhD in, which is agricultural focus, and that's in amongst your other job, which is what?

Josie Clarke:

I've worked in the grains industry now for roughly five years in research and I've also previously worked in horticulture, So yeah, I'm just about to submit my PhD, which is actually around gene editing cereal crops and trying to improve nitrogen use efficiency and salt tolerance, which is really exciting. That aspect of my life of growing up with Dad on our farm and also, then, me presenting at a field day about the latest research that we found that could help other farmers, that's something I've loved doing is sharing that knowledge and information.

In the back of my mind as well is that I might be in a field day. It's a bit of a muddy or a clay paddock and it's rained, and in the back of my head it's also thinking, "Well, hey, actually my Dad couldn't even actually be here, who's also a farmer, listening to this new knowledge just because this field and field day wasn't in the best location." That kind of stuff is just around that accessibility just naturally being built into every single agricultural kind of workplace or setting that I've been in and just acknowledging that entire lack of conversation that we have around disability in agriculture.

Just the fact that there is no conversation around adapting in agriculture or even just re-skilling after a farming accident or what does it look like to have an inclusive agricultural workplace? I think when you have that lived experience, especially with a family member, it's things in the back of your head, but when you're in the setting, it's just realising that for me personally, that 20 years ago when my Dad had his accident, if he had it yesterday, we're pretty much fairly in the exact same position with the industry and the lack of resources that are available out there for people in a similar position.

Drew Radford:

Well, that's got to be immensely frustrating for you and anybody who is in that position. Has that been a motivator for your formation of Ability Agriculture? For those that don't know about Ability Agriculture, what is it?

Josie Clarke:

Ability Agriculture, it's an online community group for farmers and families and persons with disability in agriculture, and we're roughly sitting around two and a half thousand members now in our online community group. It's just a place to share what adaptations someone's made to continue to be in agriculture, or also if it's just a place that you want to reach out to people and say, "Hey, this is my position. Is there anyone else out there that I could connect with just to get some advice?"

It's a lot of organic peer support for people with disability in agriculture, and it's not just for people who have physical disabilities or people after farming accidents, but a large proportion of our online community are people with physical disability and people after farming accidents. Yeah, the whole reason for starting Ability Agriculture is 20 years ago for us, our family was always just looking out for, "How do we do this? Is there anyone else out there that they're in a similar position to us? What funding can we access? How do we do this safely? What is out there?"

In reality, is that there just really wasn't anywhere you could go, and Ability Agriculture, we've now officially become a registered charity, which is really exciting. We have a website that has some audio-visual resources, so links to different videos of people with various disabilities in agriculture sharing their story around what supports have worked really well for them, what they do in agriculture, whether that's working on the farm or if it's working a more management position. We've just kind of built a bit of an online resource, and another really useful part of it is that peer support that we've always just tried to be on the lookout for.

Drew Radford:

From what you're describing there, I'm getting the sense that there's a lot of common misconceptions about people with disabilities working in agriculture. What are they?

Josie Clarke:

Absolutely. Well, we actually just did a support and employment research study with the industry just to gain statistics around this because we anecdotally know from a lot of the people in our community that their experiences, which is having a really hard time trying to find an employer who will want to employ them, even though they've, say, done their agricultural degree at university or gone to, say, TAFE and done their Certificate IV an Ag. They've done work experience, they've worked on farms, but finding that next step of employment has been a massive challenge. We know the personal experience, but we want to ask agribusinesses, "Well, what are the biggest challenges or misconceptions or factors that you have around going to employ a person with a disability or impairment in agriculture?" Some of the key things that popped up was around productivity and then also workplace safety.

What does safety look like in the workplace when you're employing a person with disability, especially in agriculture? Those were two of the really key ones. I think for us personally and what we've learnt is that a lot of family farms through the large-scale agribusinesses aren't actually aware of the resources available to them. Another one there was around the cost of adapting the workplace, which leads back to there's actually really great federal funding available, so schemes like Job Access and the Employment Assistance Fund will help make those workplace modifications, will help fund workplace training for your fellow employees, will also come with that access to an Occupational Therapist.

It's really important to talk about the practicality of, "What does this look like?", not, "It's too hard, I think that this will be an issue” without understanding what funding and subsidies and access to those training that your workplace might need, that they are available and they are subsidised. If you have a person with a disability or impairment applied that if they did need an adaptation to your workplace, what does that even look like? First of all, is that you'd actually have an OT, so an Occupational Therapist, probably come out with the person and develop a workplace plan, so an employment plan of for that person around what activities are possible. What are the safe activities that this person is able to complete?

Then, you'd also have the ability with the Employment Assistance Fund, if say, for instance, they might need a modification on a tractor or a side-by-side for them to be able to drive it, the Employment Assistance Fund will help pay for that modification so that that person is able to go and do that part of their job.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like there's some great support there if people are made aware of it, and that's clearly what you're trying to do. Can you share a success story of a farmer who's benefited from the support of Ability Agriculture and/or an OT?

Josie Clarke:

We have had farmers who are vision impaired and want to be involved in their family business reach out and say, "Hey, what adaptive equipment or is there any AgTech out there that we might be able to utilise to still be involved in their family business?" That's kind of like a daily connections things that we'll do is help connect people to those resources or companies that could help them continue to work in agriculture. On the employment side, we've actively actually connected young people with disability to graduate programs, which have been really great. It's been incredible to actually see a young person who was really struggling to get that entry level or connection to an agricultural organisation, so for us, it's around that connection point that's really helped create that opportunity and step forward.

Another example is we actually have a fair few OTs who are regionally based who have clients that are on a farm and they're just looking out for how they can help and support their client and just trying to understand how they could help adapt their farm or what kind of supports are out there that have been utilised by other people in the community. It's also a very common experience where sometimes OTs aren't particularly aware of, what does adapting in agriculture, what does adapting on farm in an isolated area look like? It's completely different to the supports and opportunities you might have available in an urban area, so that in itself, just creating that awareness and showing to even the medical industry and the OT kind of industry that there is opportunities available.

Drew Radford:

Josie, I was fascinated to read a line from you, which gave me an insight to this is a bigger picture, i.e., that diversity leads to sustainability. Can you explain that?

Josie Clarke:

The more diverse voices and opinions that you have, the better outcomes you have. Even, say, an agricultural enterprise, you might have one side of your business that the market falls out of it tomorrow, but you've got those other parts of your business that you can also fall back on. Converting that to the people part of agriculture is that the more diverse the skills and people that you have can lead to that greater sustainability, and acknowledging that agriculture has done a lot of great work in diversity, but also that we do have a lot of work to do and continue to do to include people.

Drew Radford:

Josie, do you think with agriculture becoming such a high-tech game that actually presents more opportunities for people with disabilities? It's such a broader sector now.

Josie Clarke:

Yeah, absolutely, and say in the last a hundred years, agriculture has mostly moved away from that physical part of its workforce. There's a diverse range of skills that are needed in agriculture from being in the city and managing trading through to accounting through to AgTech. That's something that should be amplified more, but we really enjoyed bringing that side of looking at what's new in AgTech and how that can enable a person with a disability impairment to still be involved or have a role in agriculture. We've recently done a scholarship program with a company who do mustering by drones, and we've actually supported a young person called Luke who's in Collinsville, Queensland.

He had an accident around two years ago and he's a quadriplegic, but his parents are on a cattle station and he wants to be involved in that day-to-day operation. Drone mustering is what's really piqued his interest, so that's something at the moment we're supporting Luke go through is drone stockmanship training and gaining his CASA license. He hopes to not just use that on the family farm, but he's hoping in the future that he could start his own contracting business and contract out to do some drone mustering for his neighbours or even further south in Queensland. That's just, I guess, an example of the opportunity that's available there through the development of our industry with technology.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, Josie, what advice would you give to someone with a disability who wants to pursue a career in agriculture?

Josie Clarke:

I'd say give it a go, but also I think from that experience is that if you are having any trouble or if you'd just like to reach out, you can absolutely reach out to us. We're there to help just with that connection or that front foot forward. That's absolutely something we'd love to help with. I really hope in 10 years time that we no longer get emails of young people who've just finished their ag degrees. They do have a disability impairment who are struggling to find a job. I hope we don't get emails like that in 10 years time.

I'd also say there's a lot of opportunity out there, and whether or not a contracting model or a different way of being involved in agriculture is an option, then I'd say absolutely go for it. It's just around finding that connection with the right organisation that's in the industry because there's a lot of incredible agricultural organisations that are out there and supporting what we're doing.

Drew Radford:

Josie, that's a fabulous 10-year ambition, and I'm sure those listening wish you all the best in achieving that. For now, though, Josie Clarke, founder of Ability Agriculture, thank you so much for taking the time and joining us for this AgVic Talk Podcast.

Josie Clarke:

Thank you so much for having us.

Announcer:

If you'd like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk Podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Burnout. We hear it referred to in many industries, rarely though in farming. G'day, I'm Drew Radford. And perhaps that's because farmers are viewed as stoic, self-reliant and tough. Burnout is just not part of that unhelpful stereotype. The reality is though they are subject to it, arguably even more so due to the long hours which are often spent working alone. Maggie Bridgewater knows this first-hand from years of working on farms. She now helps farmers deal with it in her role of Wellbeing Counsellor with the Rural Financial Counselling Service in Western Victoria. She joins me for this AgVic Talk podcast. Hello Maggie.

Maggie Bridgewater:

Hello, how are you going today?

Drew Radford:

I'm well, thanks Maggie, and thank you also for asking. In fact, it's probably the sort of question I'd expect from someone in your line of work. How did you become a wellbeing counsellor?

Maggie Bridgewater:

I feel like I've come about to the role because many years ago when I was at high school I remember saying to the guidance counsellor I wanted to be a social worker or counsellor, and he told me, "You'll never make any money doing that." And he steered me into agriculture instead. So I went to ag college, become an agronomist and had other roles. And it wasn't until I was working in community development for the CFA that after Black Saturday, I became fascinated more so than ever with the way that people's minds works, especially after such a horrific incident. And since then I've retrained to become a counsellor. It's everything I love, my world's coinciding together, being able to work with farmers and supporting them because I have the knowledge of how farms work and also doing counselling and supporting small businesses regionally too because we suffer and we have different problems than what cities and larger towns do. So, it's everything I'm passionate about.

Drew Radford:

It's a remarkable alignment I would suggest and a powerful alignment because the literal dust on your boots must help and open doors and start conversations very quickly.

Maggie Bridgewater:

Oh, it does. And sometimes I'll go out and see a client and some clients, they don't want to talk about how they're feeling or they don't know how to open up and the great thing is just jump in a car with them. You're both in the ute, you're looking straight ahead, not looking confrontationally at each other's eyes and you can open up and have discussions about stuff that you wouldn't generally. And then I also get to have a look at some of their crops and see how they're growing because I still have quite an interest in all that and love to see how other people's farming methods compare to ours.

Drew Radford:

You point out a very important approach there, that side by side in a ute and I understand that's very powerful. So, what role do you think Rural Financial Counsellors and Well-being Coordinators play in supporting farmers?

Maggie Bridgewater:

So the Rural Financial Counsellors, they're the ones that sit down and discuss the financial issues that people might be having. So that might be debt management, budgeting or helping them fill out the paperwork for government grants and just seeing how their business is tracking. So, my role is once the Financial Counsellors come in, they kind of talk about financial stuff and stir the pot. That can bring up emotions, that can bring up stuff that's going on for the person. Then that's when they have the opportunity if they would like to engage with Wellbeing Counsellors, we can come in and help support them managing the stress and anxiety and with mental health. Whereas the Financial Counsellor can then focus on their business, helping them do budgets and focusing on that. So, the two of us paired together with the farmer or the farming business, the results we get are phenomenal.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like a powerful and logical alliance. You mentioned stress and anxiety there.

Maggie Bridgewater:

Yeah.

Drew Radford:

Sometimes we also use a term called burnout. I'm not sure if that's interchangeable, but what are the early signs and symptoms of burnout that farmers should be aware of?

Maggie Bridgewater:

Burnout can creep up pretty slowly and we've had a couple of really tricky years. Because we've had the floods, we've had fires just recently and we've got this period of lower than normal rainfall. For farmers, it can be signs of being constantly fatigued, so bone-dead tired, feeling dread about having to leave the farmhouse at the start of the day to go outside and have to work, and just losing motivation for jobs that you would've necessarily enjoyed or just got on and got done. They might be more emotional than usual, irritable or have difficulty concentrating. So, they're doing lots of little bits of jobs but not actually finishing a larger task. They might decide not to go to footy training or the Friday night pub drinks that they've always done or this year's the first year they're not going into the pool or the darts competition.

Drew Radford:

You're drawing a bit of a broad map there, which is quite useful because I imagine there's certain elements that people work very hard to cover up, and often those around them don't know what they're going through. But these little hints sound very important for family members and friends to be aware of so that they can recognise burnout in a farmer.

Maggie Bridgewater:

Definitely. And even just having that conversation with them and not saying in an attacking way, but saying, "I feel you've been acting differently" or "I've noticed you are not going off farm as much" or "I've noticed you don't want to catch up. How's things going for you? What's going on in your head? What's going on in your world?" And sometimes some farmers or even anyone, people, they can't put the wording to it, but they will say something like they're just feeling blah or they can't shut off from the head noise. When we say head noise, for some people that is just thoughts and feelings and just everything that can be the anxious mind. They can't shut that off to sleep or even to think clearly. So, for them, maybe they're numb and they're just feeling blah.

Drew Radford:

Tough conversations but honest conversations and arguably sometimes a little bit more difficult because unfortunately farmers have a reputation almost thrust upon them of being stoic and resilient and ‘I'm all right’.

Maggie Bridgewater:

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, they really do have a macho culture and you've just got to keep going and pushing through it.

Drew Radford:

Maggie, you mentioned head noise, you mentioned fatigue. Are there other common symptoms of anxiety and stress in farmers that people should be aware of?

Maggie Bridgewater:

You know your own body. You know what your normal setting's like. So if you're feeling that your heart's racing more or you've got sweaty palms or you're getting headaches if you don't usually have them and that you're struggling with making decisions, whereas usually that's not a problem, or they're feeling more restless or unable to relax or settle because for some people they can just come inside and shut off at the end of the day. But if they're feeling like they're a cat on a hot tin roof, certainly their family and people around them will notice that too. If they're having problems with sleeping, with digestion because your gut is a really big one. If everything you sort of eat is making you feel sick, and you're getting pains in your tummy. This is all the physical signs that emotionally and mentally something's a bit out of whack and you're not running at 100% like you usually would.

Drew Radford:

Maggie, you alluded to earlier about jobs not being completed as being possibly one of the symptoms. Are there other ones in terms of impacting daily farming activities?

Maggie Bridgewater:

Definitely. So, if you can't make simple everyday decisions where it's such as managing livestock, where are you going to move them? Where are you going to feed them? When are you going to sell them? And handling and moving machinery, your everyday farmers are making huge decisions on financial planning, whether that's buying fertiliser or seed at the moment or whether can we get a contractor in or should I buy this new header?

But what I would also say is it also increases the farmer's chance, if you're not getting a good night's sleep, it increases the chance of you injuring yourself on the farm and that might be that you forget that you've got a beam that's shorter or lower in the shearing shed. And it's been like that for 52 years and this one time you forget to duck and you end up whacking yourself on the head or hitting your hand or your finger with a hammer when you're doing a 2 second repairing job of a fence. Because we all know that when you're tired, you cannot think as clearly, you're distracted and that increases the chances of you injuring yourself and also not making as good decisions as what you usually would on the farm.

Drew Radford:

Maggie, do you think farmers are particularly vulnerable to mental health challenges?

Maggie Bridgewater:

I would think so, yes. And that's what we are seeing because with farmers there's such unique stresses all the time, such as the financial instability, unpredictable weather, is there going to be too much rain, not enough? Is the fire coming? And also the pressure of running a family-owned business because most of the time farmers also live on the land, so that's also the home too. So, you have the extra added pressure of the home is on the farm. Also, you are managing all of the land and livestock and everything too. So, if you were to lose that farm, you'd also lose the family home. And certainly, with a lot of farms, it's generational farms too, so there's a lot more pressure for the farm to be doing better and thriving because it's been in the family for 2, 3, 4 generations. And with farmers, there's such a cultural expectation to just keep going and be strong, and that can sometimes mean that farmers don't acknowledge that they've got some mental health needs.

Drew Radford:

We've talked about some of the causes, the symptoms. What do you think some of the strategies farmers can use to manage stress and prevent burnout?

Maggie Bridgewater:

There's a lot of strategies they can use, but I would definitely say that working with Financial Counsellors can really help because then they're helping them set realistic financial goals, and also working with Wellbeing Counselling we can help supporting farmers and for a lot of them, helping them create more of a work-life balance. So even if that means sometimes taking breaks or stepping back from the farm or taking that Tuesday morning off to go and watch the kids in the athletics sports or the swimming competition and prioritising tasks or delegating and the importance of having some type of regular physical exercise, whether it be going for a walk of a morning or I've got a farmer who started bike riding of a morning because he's waking up and he's feeling rather stiff and sore because farming can be quite manual. And he's finding he's not as tired at the end of the day and his back isn't playing up as much. That's helping him set his head and his body up for the day.

But also a balanced diet, making sure that they're sleeping and farmers might be a bit reluctant to try it, but doing some mindfulness practices, whether that's doing some meditation or breathing or helping farmers figure out a way to help them wind down at the end of the day and what fills them with joy. I've got a client who loves getting up early of a morning and sits outside before the rest of the family gets up and has a coffee, looking at his lawn and his garden because that is really important to him and that quiet time helps set him up for the day.

Drew Radford:

Maggie, what resources are available for farmers to help improve their mental health?

Maggie Bridgewater:

There's Lifeline and Beyond Blue. They offer free confidential counselling services or Rural Financial Counselling Service. We also offer access to wellbeing team members when people are engaged with our Financial Counsellors so we can offer support to farmers or if they prefer, we can also help people get linked in with other support services locally too. A lot of the role when people start having some health crises or health problems, we can help do service navigation for them and linking them in with other doctors or specialists that are in their area, and experts to support them on this.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, Maggie, I do wonder if this is perhaps one of the most important things is how do you reckon we can reduce the stigma around seeking mental health support in rural communities?

Maggie Bridgewater:

Well, certainly podcasts like this and just talking about mental health and normalising talking about mental health because people are happy to talk about their ill health when they've got complaints or problems. So, let's continue this conversation talking about mental health. Having open discussions in the community, in groups, social events, and even at farming conferences can help challenge the tough farmer stereotype that we were talking about earlier. Having farmers who have experienced mental health challenges share their stories, and also we deliver mental health first aid and also talk the talk and that is about raising awareness of mental health and what support is in communities and raising people's own knowledge of how to talk about mental health.

Drew Radford:

Maggie, I think you're doing a wonderful job of challenging some of that stigma around talking about it. You've certainly made me think about a few things. For now, though, Maggie Bridgewater, Wellbeing Counsellor with Rural Financial Counselling Service. Thank you so much for taking the time and joining me for this AgVic Talk Podcast.

Maggie Bridgewater:

No worries. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1:

If you'd like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

For someone like Catherine Velisha, cultural work safety isn’t just something she talks about. As a granddaughter of a migrant farmer, it’s in her DNA, and it’s central to how she now runs a business and also trains other organisations in it.

G’day. I’m Drew Radford and Catherine is managing director of Velisha Farms and to delve deeper into the topic of cultural work safety, she joins me for this AgVic Talk podcast. Thanks for your time.

Catherine Velisha:

Not a problem. Thank you.

Drew Radford:

Catherine, where are you based and what do you grow?

Catherine Velisha:

We’re based out in Werribee South, which is about 30 minutes from the Melbourne CBD in Victoria. We have a lot of growers that grow for us and we grow some stock ourselves. Our main lines that we carry are broccoli, cauliflower, celery, iceberg lettuce, spring onions, kale, cucumbers, and zucchini. So, all the green stuff.

Drew Radford:

That’s certainly quite a bit of produce, and it’s well and truly in your veins. You’re third generation, I understand.

Catherine Velisha:

Yeah, so my grandfather came from Albania with his 2 brothers and they started farming out in Werribee South. And the reason why Werribee South turned into a horticulture production area was because World War I broke out and the Puckapunyal Army base needed some food. So, that’s how Werribee South became such a highly condensed growing area.

Drew Radford:

It’s a great bit of history that you’ve got there, and businesses obviously continued to grow and grow. Catherine, what do you reckon some of the key health, safety and wellbeing challenges are for the horticulture industry?

Catherine Velisha:

I think they’re different for different people in the chain of the business. I think as owners and directors, there’s a lot of mental stress. Inputs are really hard, margins are hard and a lot of our customers are quite ruthless and hard to deal with, so it’s probably more of a mental health and safety area for the leaders of the business.

Obviously, throughout our businesses we’ve got robust supply chains that have lots of activity going through them, so we’ve got a packing warehouse here. And obviously, there’s a lot of risks that need to be managed, be it machinery, tractors, people, forklifts, trucks, all of the like, and then, obviously, on farm. Whenever there’s machinery and people, there’s a big risk. So, it is about managing those risks. And I think the best way to manage that is through robust training.

Drew Radford:

Catherine, what does a culturally safe workplace mean to you?

Catherine Velisha:

People can show up and be who they are, and hold the values that are important to them that are maybe different to everyone else’s, but those differences are celebrated and nurtured and supported, opposed to them having to be, I guess, hidden or people to have to change to fit in.

Drew Radford:

Catherine, this sounds like something you live and breathe on a daily basis. Can you tell us about your workforce and why Velisha Farms is investing in education and cultural safety?

Catherine Velisha:

So, we’ve got a very multicultural workforce. We’ve got a lot of Indian people that work in our business, Vietnamese people that work in our business. They’re probably the main two different cultures. And obviously, then we've got some Australian Anglo-Saxon people that are working in our business.

And I had some really steep learnings when I first took over the business that it really is about treating people as individuals and not as amalgamate things. I think we can do that. When you think of a culture or you think of someone just as a homogenous group. And people aren’t homogenous groups, they’re individuals with different needs and wants and desires and expectations, and it’s really about leading people as a group, but also as individuals and allowing them to thrive in however way they want that to be.

Drew Radford:

Was that a bit of an ‘Aha’ moment realising, ‘Well, hang on, I’m dealing with individuals here,’ or was there something more that put you down this path?

Catherine Velisha:

It was just a culture thing. I remember when I took over the business, I took some of the sales team to Hong Kong with me and I thought I was doing them a fantastic service by taking them to Hong Kong and taking them out for dinners with businesspeople and whatever, and then we got back.

And I remember that there was a discussion, and I think someone wanted something, or whatever. And I said, ‘You went to Hong Kong.’ And then after that conversation, I really realised that Hong Kong for them was an imposition. The things that I thought were final bonuses or whatever, they didn’t like.

That was a big deal for them and they were only doing it for the business. They didn’t see it as a perk, and that was a bit of a wake-up call to see, seeing that people have different ideals and different values. And what you assume is maybe a perk for someone, isn’t that at all. So, it’s all about being really open with communication and finding out what people want, what motivates them, and how you can get that all working together in one direction.

Drew Radford:

That must have been an interesting moment for you, standing there scratching your head going, ‘Hang on, I thought I've done the right thing,’ but it brought a moment of insight.

Catherine Velisha:

Most definitely, and it was a really good learning. And we do have different values, people from different cultures, what we think is important, what we want, how we see the world, and it is about really, I guess, being inclusive and giving people what they need and want to have a happy career and enjoy their workplace. And that means different things for different people.

Drew Radford:

Catherine, how have you gone about creating a culturally inclusive workplace through your safety and training programs?

Catherine Velisha:

Again, when I first took over the business, I had a crew of people that had been with us for a long time but we needed some more, I guess, sophisticated skill sets than we had currently. And what I didn’t want to do though was just hire on top of everyone all the time and then feel like they were getting nowhere. So, I had quite robust conversations with a few of the people in the team and said, ‘I think these are the positions the business need. I think you could do them, but you’re not there yet. And these are the steps you need to take to become those roles.’

And to their credit, they took on that challenge. And so, what we’ve got is a leadership team that is very reflective of our entire workforce. We do have a mainly Vietnamese and Indian workforce and our top managers are also from Vietnam and India. So, I think having that has allowed for a more inclusive workspace, more understanding workspace. And people know that they’ll be given a chance on merit and that there’s no real preconceived notions around anything. And whoever wants to do the job and can do the job will get the job.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like a very smart practice for actually securing a workforce and reducing turnover, and increasing safety at the same time.

Catherine Velisha:

Yeah, most definitely. We’ve got some people here who’ve been here 12 to 14 years, which is really great, and they’ve gotten better as the business has gotten better. And it does help with safety because again, it’s about taking those cultural learnings.

Some people come from cultures that don't see OH&S as such an essential part of business and then trying to really communicate the needs and what’s expected is different generally, based on what our customers expect for us to be as businesses.

So we’re driven by that, and it does help when you’ve got some key people who have grown through the business and can understand that. And then they’re communicating both in English, but also some of these conversations, as English is a second language, sometimes it does help if they’re spoken in their native language too, to get things across. So, it is good to have our leadership team lead a group of people, and they could communicate in multiple languages together. It does, I think, make a safer workplace.

Drew Radford:

I understand also, drilling down a bit further, you do provide some language support training as well?

Catherine Velisha:

Yeah, we got a teacher to work with us. And it was really about some of our packing staff and things like that whose English was quite weak, Just giving them basic, I guess, a work language that we could all use and helping them with their English. So, they got to do that while they're at work. We paid for that, and we supported it. And I guess, it's not a quick fix and it wasn't a miracle change where everyone could speak fluently after a few sessions. But what I did notice probably most importantly, was the confidence that it gave those people that did those courses, and then how much more they were willing to try to express themselves and be part of the conversation. So, I think more so than turning anyone into fluently bilingual, what it did just give is confidence for people to try and try to be part of the conversation and put their input in.

Drew Radford:

Does that translate as well into multi-language signage around your operation?

Catherine Velisha:

Most definitely. We do multi-language sign. We also focus a lot on video training, a picture tells a thousand words, and I think that's really true. And I think it's true for everyone. None of us really want to be reading and ticking off boxes and doing everything, and a lot of those inductions that people do sometimes are not that robust. People not really paying any attention, they just want to get through it. So, we try to create, really that's what we do with VEG Education. And we do that for other businesses, not just our own. We try to create really fundamentally great videos.

So, if you've got a piece of machinery that's a bit at risk, we do an easy-to-follow video, or where's safe to touch, what to do, things like that. Or we can do site inductions and things like that. And I think the video is really powerful, especially including people from your workforce in those videos because it does make people feel a little bit more connected to wherever they're starting.

Drew Radford:

Catherine, I just want to take one step back. You mentioned there VEG Education, which is an organisation that you help run. For those that are unfamiliar, can you describe what they do?

Catherine Velisha:

It's an RTO, so a Registered Training Organisation, and we created it with this in mind that we thought there were gaps in horticulture training. Because we do have such a multicultural workforce, because safety is such a big issue, and because people don't know where to start.

Drew Radford:

Just harking back to what you said a moment ago about confidence, I imagine you've seen some great examples with some of the people that work for you, especially if some have been there for over a decade. Have you got any examples you could share?

Catherine Velisha:

Oh, well, Vy, she's only actually been with us for about three years, but she's a perfect example. She came to us through an NFF program and she's done an Ag Science Degree. And she came as this, what appeared to us to be this tiny little girl, even though she's quite a strong woman. And she came in, and she's just gone from strength to strength and taken on every opportunity we've given her. Starting off just as a worker, but now she runs the production out there and she's managing people that are much older than her and who have been there a long time, but it's also really great how they let the best person for the job be them. There's, no egos out there, so that's fantastic. And she's just recently finished her training and assessing course that we helped facilitate through here, so now she'll be able to actually properly train other people, other Vietnamese people in horticulture or agriculture in Vietnamese on some really important things. She's been a great example of someone who's been able to flourish because they've been supported for who they are.

Drew Radford:

I can't help but wonder, Catherine, at the start, you told me the lovely story of your grandfather who came to this country as a migrant. Do you think that background colours your perspective to some degree, gives you some empathy and insight to try and make the hurdles easier to clear for the current generation of migrants?

Catherine Velisha:

Most definitely, most definitely. Sometimes there is still frustrations. Obviously, a lot of people's English is a second language for them, so there can be some communication follies. And I'm probably not the most patient person or the most communicative sometimes, but I always, whenever I get a bit frustrated or whatever, I always think there'd be absolutely no way that I could go to another country and go work in a business and get myself up to being managerial. So, I am in awe to a certain extent because I don't think I could achieve anything that any of my team have achieved here. If anything, I'm quite inspired by them.

Drew Radford:

That's a fantastic insight and a very empathetic insight. Catherine, what are your top three tips for improving cultural safety in the horticulture industry?

Catherine Velisha:

Seeing people as individuals with individual needs and values and not just homogeneous groups. I do think that making tools that are user-friendly, i.e. video inductions, translations of signs, translation of any sort of training really is a powerful tool. And also, just being patient and really put yourself in someone else's shoes, and I think that takes a lot of the frustration away.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, are there any resources or tools you'd recommend to other farm businesses starting this journey?

Catherine Velisha:

I think VEG Education has some really great programs and resources for safety, but also WorkSafe is there always to help. They've got great resources there to help and guide people. WorkSafe have really done a lot to become, supporters more than policemen, so to speak. There's lots of stuff out there. It's just about taking the journey and being brave enough to do it.

Drew Radford:

Catherine Velisha's belief in the treatment of a person as an individual as opposed to a homogenous group is reflected in the people she employs in the business. One of those is Vy Pham who recently graduated with a Bachelor of Agriculture and has risen quickly through the ranks to help run the operation.

Vy Pham:

I'm the production manager at Velisha Farm, primarily work in packing shed. So, my routine every day involving manage people, checking, and packing the produce to ensure it meets the quality standards. The fast-paced environment make my days go quickly, it’s rewarding to see how our hard work leads to great produce that reach the customer.

Drew Radford:

So Vy, English is not your first language. What is your first language?

Vy Pham:

I'm a Vietnamese, so Vietnamese is my mother language. English is not my second language actually, because in our country the only language that we speak is Vietnamese. So, when I prepare to come here, I take few years to study English.

Drew Radford:

Vy, when you started at Velisha Farms, what sort of language or cultural barriers were there that you had to deal with?

Vy Pham:

Actually, when I come here, I'm surprised because most of the workers that I've been working with, they are Indian and Vietnamese. So, I can speak Vietnamese, so it should be okay, but Indian worker, some of them they can speak English well, but some of them cannot speak English properly. But it's okay, we use body language, everything that we can to communicate with them. And I try to use some simple effective work, just describe on the job and make sure they properly understand what I say. That's a challenge for me as well.

Drew Radford:

Vy, how does Velisha Farms create a culturally inclusive and respectful work environment for employees from such diverse backgrounds?

Vy Pham:

Yeah, actually everyone got the training when the machinery operation and we do it every two or three months to teach them again, what’s the update. And we also have a toolbox meeting where we training them for the new equipment or everything, so make sure they can get update and make sure they can follow a safety procedure. We also support them in the English session as well. So if they want to learn some English, they can talk to me and then we can open some language session for them. I speak Vietnamese so I can train with this Vietnamese worker. If they don't understand anything or anything they want to learn, they can contact me and then I explain it for them. Not really like a formal session, but I break down like 15, 20 minutes with them if they want to. Yeah. Because Vietnamese people they kind of shy when they ask someone if they are not Vietnamese. But I'm Vietnamese, so they easier to open their heart to ask me some questions, so I'm willing to help.

Drew Radford:

That's a wonderful thing and a great advantage for the Vietnamese workers there. Did Indian workers have a similar support?

Vy Pham:

Yep. My coworker is Hanik, he's a Indian. So he like a operation and admin manager, so he can support the Indian worker if they need the support as well. But most of them they can speak English well, so that is not a big deal with them. But we still make sure everyone have a fairly treatment, fairly to everyone. So, if they need the support, we always be here to help.

Drew Radford:

Vy, what advice would you give to new workers who may be facing challenges with language or cultural barriers in the horticultural industry?

Vy Pham:

Actually, for the new worker, especially those from different backgrounds, I would say, don't be afraid to ask for help. Whether you from Vietnam, Indian or any other background, there's no shame in not understanding everything immediately. Even me, I graduate here, right? But sometime I cannot understand some slang or some language barrier, dialect different, I just ask. But try to build a relationship with your coworkers that can help you adapt to the work culture and give you tips. Because coworkers are easier to open their heart to talk. They can help you to adapt the work culture and give your tips on what's expected. It's also really helpful to learn the basics of safety protocols in your native language, so we also provide for them to translate description. We translate to Hindi and Vietnamese, so make sure they can read through and understand in their mother language, so you never in doubt when it comes to your safety.

Drew Radford:

Do you have any tips for employers, from your experiences you've had, to improve cultural safety in their businesses?

Vy Pham:

If you work in diversity culture, different background, maybe you try to hire someone in different background as the manager or the coworker so they can have a live culture together. They easier to open their heart to ask the question to the one that they familiar with the nationality. And the training session is very important if the employer can have a chance to provide us some training session, so proper training can build a proper future for them. If you have proper training, you can have aconfidence to do the job properly. That's very value for us as well.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like your confidence is built considerably from the experiences you've had. Thank you ever so much, Vy Pham, for your insights on the work that you do, and joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Vy Pham:

Oh, thank you Drew.

Speaker 1:

If you'd like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Loading ramps and forcing yards are among the most dangerous parts of livestock handling facilities. Not keeping people and livestock separated can have fatal results. G'day, I'm Drew Radford, and a person who spent more time than most loading and unloading livestock is Joel Haberfield. He started working around livestock trucks as a teenager, and then he went on to drive them all around Australia for decades. He now owns the transport company he spent his life driving for, and he's very focused on his staff working in safe environments so that they can come home uninjured. To delve into handling cattle safely, he joins me for this AgVic Talk podcast. G'day, Joel.

Joel Haberfield:

G'day Drew. How are you, mate?

Drew Radford:

I'm great, Joel. Joel, thank you so much for your time, because you got a few trucks, don't you? How many trucks have you got and what's your main cargo you carry?

Joel Haberfield:

We've got 22 trucks based in Warrnambool in south-west Victoria, and we cart predominantly sheep and cattle, sheep and cattle all over Australia. And we can stretch as far as Darwin, across to Margaret River, and back across to Gippsland, so we go anywhere and everywhere.

Drew Radford:

The business has been doing that for a long time too, hasn't it? I understand you've recently bought it, but it was a family business?

Joel Haberfield:

Certainly was. The Boyle family established the business through Kelvin Boyle back in 1957, based here in Mepunga, just near Warrnambool, and operated through to 2000. And his son, Anthony Boyle, took over the business in roughly about 2000, and then me and my wife were lucky to take over the business in 2023.

Drew Radford:

That's a long legacy, but you've been involved with it for a while. From what I can work out, you've basically got diesel in your veins and dust on your boots. You were a young boy when you started messing around with trucks.

Joel Haberfield:

Spot on. My father and my uncle both drove for the Boyle family for best part of 25 years, so as a boy I lived and breathed the Boyle family trucks. I started here when I was 15 doing all the fun jobs, cleaning crates out, washing trucks, and have slowly progressed up to where we are today.

Drew Radford:

You've been around it for a long time and now you own it. I want to speak to you about improving loading ramp safety. You've probably seen some average loading ramps over the years while you've been driving, I would imagine?

Joel Haberfield:

There's plenty of loading facilities around that are up to scratch, but there's a lot that aren't. All of our drivers, whether it be a 21-year-old starting off, Drew, or a 65-year-old that's working on casual on weekends, they all deserve to go home to their family without a scratch on them. We all know that we trip over and things go wrong, but the facilities that we're dealing with these days and the equipment that we are providing as a company need to be respected, and we need to turn up to a facility that is capable of loading an animal safely and adequately.

Drew Radford:

What sort of things have you seen, Joel, without shaming anybody?

Joel Haberfield:

Generally, you see yards that are half fallen down, held together by a bit of wire, a couple of iron droppers. Or we had a driver three weeks ago, Drew, that was loading out of a sheep ramp that was held up by 44 gallon drum. And we drove into that farm with a 1.2 million truck and here's this 45-year-old ramp sitting on top of a possibly 20-year-old 44 gallon drum.

We understand that times get tough. We understand that sometimes there is a lack of finances to update the facilities, but at the end of the day, we have to make sure our staff are put into an environment where they feel safe and we feel safe sending them there.

Drew Radford:

It's a difficult line for you as well, isn't it, I imagine? Because this is your business, you obviously need to be loading your trucks with livestock to keep it ticking over, but it must get to a difficult point of going, "We're going to have trouble coming back here unless you improve facilities"?

Joel Haberfield:

Absolutely. And we've had those conversations, those tough conversations with livestock agents and farmers. And we need to have people there helping drivers load, so if they do have a facility that is lacklustre or not fit for purpose, as long as there's a couple of people there helping the driver to be aware of the fences,  to try and help the driver load the truck safely.

So, there's got to be a conversation around a team, a team to help the driver load or try and make improvements, and if you have that conversation with the farmers, you generally get a good response. You can't just go in there and tell them how bad of a setup they've got and drive away. That doesn't work for anyone. There's got to be a respect both ways, there's got to be an understanding both ways, and if you get to that point where you both understand each other, there's always a position that you can reach to get a good outcome.

Drew Radford:

I imagine also if you go down the legal path, which is the last thing I'd imagine an operator like you would want, your worker gets injured in some yards, your insurance I imagine contributes to covering that, but then they would go for the farmer, wouldn't they? It'd end up being a nightmare.

Joel Haberfield:

Yeah, it's a big chain of responsibility thing. We send a driver there, so it comes back on us. But at the same time, if a driver is in a position that he's unsafe and using a set of yards that is unfit for purpose, it has to also come down to the responsibility of the farmer, because he's aware of it and he knows about it.

Drew Radford:

I imagine this is a productivity thing as well, Joel. Shady facility means a longer time loading, less time on the road, wouldn't it?

Joel Haberfield:

Yeah, absolutely. Loading mainly sheep and cattle out of substandard facilities can put stress on the animals, too, Drew, which comes back to kill data, bruising, which can affect the farmer's pocket. So, it is also in the farmer's benefit to make sure their facility is up to standard. And we are lucky.  We've all had these conversations and made our farmers better. So we are lucky in our business we don't have many of them, and if we do, we have the conversations to make them better.

Drew Radford:

I understand also that now there are standards. There's the Australian standard for livestock loading and unloading ramps and forcing pens, and this has been out I think for about five years. How do they help reduce accidents and injuries and improve animal welfare?

Joel Haberfield:

What they do, Drew, is they give the farmers, but also the abattoirs and the sale yards too, Drew, they give them a guide how to build a facility that is fit for purpose, whether it be a catwalk on the side so drivers can access the back of their truck, or a slide gate to make sure that the animals and the driver are separated. So, it's a very good guide to help producers, whether it be saleyards, abattoirs or farmers, in regards to getting their yards up to a fit for purpose and we've done it here in our yard, we've made improvements to our ramps. They don't have to build new yards. We understand yards can't be torn down and built overnight, but what you can do, is that rail that's been hanging off, you can replace it with a new rail and some new screws. The ramp that doesn't have a slide gate at the front, you can go down to your local rural store, as we have done here, and you can retrofit a slide gate to the front of your ramp. So, all it does is gives farmers, abattoirs and saleyards a good overview of what the livestock transporters industry requires to get their stock from A to B.

Drew Radford:

Joel, you mentioned a couple of things like sliding gates and also walkways around them, and what other features do you look for when you're coming into a yard to go, "Oh yeah, that's all good" or, "That's what they need"? What are some of the key features?

Joel Haberfield:

They're the main ones, Drew. A catwalk on the driver's side of the truck, an access gate into the ramp from the top, and a slide gate at the front. And it just minimises the contact that the driver has with the beast, whether it be a cow or a vealer. The sheep is a slightly different topic, as the sheep, the drivers are in with or they've got dogs around. So, the main thing with cattle is to keep the driver separated from the animal as much as we can. So, we've got to make sure chains are not just hanging off by a bit of twine, they're welded to the gate properly so the driver can shut the gate and keep themselves separate from the animal.

Drew Radford:

You make a good point there, don't you? A bit of twine not going to help you when a tonne and a half of cows coming at you.

Joel Haberfield:

Yeah, spot on, Drew. We also make sure our vehicle's up to standard, too. So, we have invested in the last eight or nine years, with our equipment, our new trailers have got automatic shutting gates on the top and bottom of the back trailer and on the front of the back trailer. So, we can also separate our drivers from our livestock with automatic gates. So, we've made a significant headway to making sure our drivers are safe as well.

Drew Radford:

On the other side, Joel, is there training that's required to use the loading ramps safely, and are there any resources around for that?

Joel Haberfield:

Yeah, there is, Drew. The Livestock and Rural Transporters Association, in partners with the South Australian Association and New South Wales Associations, conduct a volume loading course. We hold one every two to three months into Victoria. And what it does, Drew, is it engages with drivers and operators and teaches them how to load and unload trucks safely, but it also allows them to operate under the livestock loading scheme, which was designed in Victoria back in the mid '90s.

Drew Radford:

Joel, our focus in this conversation has been a lot about farmers, but I imagine you're in an awful lot of saleyards as well, and there's almost this expectation, well, it's a saleyard, it should be up to standard. Is that always the case?

Joel Haberfield:

We're lucky to cover most saleyards in Australia, and 70% of them are up to standard. And it's not so much about the standard, Drew, it's about the maintenance. If a chain isn't fixated to the gate properly from when it's been re-welded, it can make a massive difference to a beast not being locked into a pen. So, it's all about the maintenance on the yards too, that the yards can be brand new, there's a lot of brand new saleyards in western Victoria, but if they're not maintained properly, it's a waste of time having them. Where if you get a set of farmer's yards that are 40-year-old but they're maintained well, it makes a massive difference.

So, we push very hard. The Livestock and Rural Transport Association have a very good relationship with local and interstate saleyards and abattoirs, and we think we get a pretty good response when need be. But yeah, we definitely have to keep our focus, not on just the farmers, but the industry as a whole, whether it be abattoirs or saleyards and other facilities that we go to.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, Joel, what advice would you give to other transporters or farmers looking to improve the safety of their loading ramps?

Joel Haberfield:

Just to invest in the industry that they're so in-depth with. We've started looking at different ways to keep an eye on drivers in their crates, whether it be a camera, talking to farmers in regards to loading. We make sure there's someone there loading with their drivers. It is such a volatile industry we're in because it is so secluded. Sometimes there's no phone range, sometimes drivers are loading animals that haven't seen humans for two or three years, when you start talking about outback work.

We have to make sure that our drivers are safe, because at the end of the day, without the driver, the cows don't get from A to B, and as we know, the supply chain issues we'd cause from that. So, we have to be aware of the industry we're in and protect our drivers, but also protect our animals.

Drew Radford:

While Joel Haberfield grew up handling cattle for Boyle's transport, not everybody has the same advantage of learning from a young age. Peter Miller from Almurta in South Gippsland came to cattle farming and learning how to handle them much later in life.

Peter Miller:

I was 50 when I started, when I bought my first farm. I developed a passion for farming in my early 20s when Dad had a farm. Dad didn't farm for very long. He was a real estate agent, but that's when I developed the taste for farming and I just loved it. I always wanted to buy my own farm. I was lucky enough to have another career that afforded me the money to go to the bank and borrow enough money to buy a farm. Now we have that farm, we lease a lot of country as well as.

Drew Radford:

So what are you running, Peter?

Peter Miller:

Cows and calves, and we've probably got about 400 breeding cows.

Drew Radford:

That's a reasonable herd to have built in a later stage of a career, really.

Peter Miller:

It is. We've worked off farm to do that, and the only way we've done it was take no money out of the farm. My wife works and I have a part-time job, so that puts bread and butter on the table.

Drew Radford:

It'll be fair to say then that handling cattle is probably something that's not in your DNA, you didn't grow up with?

Peter Miller:

No, I didn't, and I'm really conscious of that fact. I'd like to think I'm competent at it now, but you continually learning. To learn how to handle cattle, I took a lot of advice from my stock agent, truck drivers, anybody that handles cattle, other farmers. Because you enjoy it, you're open to take on new ideas and look at the way they do it, and that's how I learned how to handle cattle.

Drew Radford:

I understand also, you had a bit of a firsthand experience, which could have been literally a near life experience too as well, which may have refocused you on that somewhat.

Peter Miller:

Yeah, it did. I had an instance where we have a place that we lease not far away from here. We had some heifers, they were six weeks away from calving, so we take them back to our own place, I put them in the trailer. I was pushing the last one up the race where I shouldn't have been, behind it.

In the meantime, there was one that was in the trailer, thought she didn't like it, and she was coming out no matter what. I was quite lucky that she went past me instead of over the top of me. Give me a bit of a fright at the time. I thought, "This could have ended badly, but luckily we're still here today."

Drew Radford:

Yeah, it could have ended very badly, because I think people sometimes underestimate the sheer mass you are dealing with, especially if that hoof lands on top of you or it pushes you against something.

Peter Miller:

That's right. Worst case scenario to me is you go down the ground and the animal's on top of you. That's the worst thing that can happen, but once again, it comes back to awareness. We were drafting cattle yesterday and I was glad my stock agent was there to help me because it was much safer with two people in the yards rather than one.

Drew Radford:

Well, focusing on that, Peter, and following that incident, what steps have you implemented to improve livestock handling safety?

Peter Miller:

We built a new set of yards at our farm. As farmers, we don't have a lot of money to spend, so we built them out of timber and posts. They're a good, strong, sturdy, practical set of yards. We try to focus on keeping everything functioning. We like all the latches to work. We like all the hinges to be free and easy and working the way they should be. Gates must swing correctly.

Being in South Gippsland is a bit of a challenge with the flooring. We have a gravel floor, and I believe gravel or stone is a good floor. But the mud, to keep the mud out of the yards, it's a constant challenge when you're using the yards a lot in South Gippsland, but it's just something that we deal with.

Drew Radford:

Mud would have many issues, but I assume it's got a safety issue for you as well.

Peter Miller:

100%. It has. You don't move as fast when you're knee-deep in mud, so we try and avoid that if we can. We'll clean the yards out. We try and do it once a year in the summertime and sort of resurface the yards. We just put a load of rock in there. At the end of the day, it's easier for us. It's not only safer, but it's easier. If your yards are clean and safe and the gates all swing, it's a much more pleasant experience to work in the yards.

Drew Radford:

You're saying it's more pleasant, but surely it adds up to being more expedient as well? You're spending less time in there.

Peter Miller:

It does, and that's what we enjoy, too. We find we get more cattle put through the yards. When I think back at what we started with there, and to handle a mob of cattle, we could probably do it in half the time now that we did originally. And if the yards are set up and well-designed, the cattle flow well, so you're not fighting against the cattle, the cattle are going where they want to go and where we want them to go. You've just got to get that design right and it makes it easier.

Drew Radford:

I imagine that makes it easier as well in terms of having third parties come on the property. They're happy to come and pick up your stock or work with you.

Peter Miller:

Yeah. Just yesterday we loaded cattle out of a place we lease, and we're quite fortunate that the people we leased it off are safety conscious. The yards are quite sound, quite strong, but they realised their loading race was lacking, so they went and bought a brand new loading race, proper walkway, proper sliding gate at the back, slam shut gates at the top.

Talking to the truck driver yesterday, it was the first time he'd loaded out of there and loved it, said, it's amazing how much easier and safer it is for him. He also commented to me that it's a father and son transport operation that is so much better for his father. His father's sort of my age and a bit slower, and it's better for his father.

Drew Radford:

Which is a fantastic perspective, and that should be really the perspective taken towards anybody who's working, really. There's that duty of care, but I'd imagine, too, that if it's in such disrepair, I'm not saying yours were, but I imagine truck drivers that deal with places that are in such disrepair, they go, "Look, I'm not going to put my safety at risk."

Peter Miller:

I feel sorry for truck drivers sometimes. Our own loading facilities at Almurta where we are, we built them ourselves, but we probably built them 10 year ago, and there wasn't the focus or the knowledge on how to make loading ramps safer. We're in the process now and we've been chipping away at it for 12 months. We probably need a bum kicked because we should have put more effort into it, but we'll put a walkway up the side of it. We've already done the walkway, it just needs a handrail on it, and we're putting gates at the front. This is like a slam shut gate so the cattle can't come out of the truck. It's just safer for the truck driver. And in today's times, I think you have to really focus on the contractors or the other people that you have come onto your farm. You have a duty of care to make things as safe as you possibly can for them.

Drew Radford:

I understand that you've ended up doing some work with WorkSafe?

Peter Miller:

Yeah, I have. I sit on one of their advisory committees and just help them look at things from a farmer's perspective. WorkSafe needs to appreciate the practicalities of farming, and I just give them a farmer's perspective. I'm not qualified in anything, but I like to think they come up with an idea and I say, "Well, that won't work because of this." And I try and steer them in a practical manner, and I'd like to think that they're heading in the right direction.

Drew Radford:

Peter, have you found any resources or information that's been useful in making safety improvements?

Peter Miller:

Yeah, I have. And when it comes to loading ramps, there's a standard, a loading ramp standard, which Standards Australia own it. You got to pay to get it, but there are organisations, Victorian Farmers Federation has recommendations that follow that standard, and so do the Livestock Transporters of Victoria, they have a recommendation. Things like that are good common sense recommendations to follow.

Drew Radford:

What do you reckon your top tips are for improving safety in loading ramps and forcing yards?

Peter Miller:

Maintenance would be top of the tree. If your yards are well maintained and you have a good safe system and you're aware of the cattle. Cattle awareness is a big thing no matter which part of your farm you're on, but if your yards are well maintained, it takes a lot of the hazard out of it, in my opinion.

Drew Radford:

Well, Peter, it sounds like you've made some significant improvements in your property in terms of making the place safer, but also a more pleasant environment to work in. Peter Miller, thank you so much for taking the time and joining me for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Peter Miller:

No worries at all. Thanks for your time, Drew. Thanks for the opportunity.

Speaker 1:

If you'd like to speak with someone from Agriculture Victoria about farm safety, call 136 186.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

For more AgVic Talk podcasts, visit agriculture.vic.gov.au/agvictalk. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian government, Melbourne.

Beth Jones: Hi, my name is Beth Jones, and I’m the Chief Executive of Agriculture Victoria. Welcome to season 10 of Ag Vic Talk.

In this season, we will explore the importance of farm safety and wellbeing in Victoria. We will discuss how farmers manage cattle and shearing shed safety, how farmers with disabilities can be supported within the sector, how to address issues related to fatigue and long working hours, and how to create culturally safe workplaces on farms.

Farming remains one of the most rewarding yet high-risk occupations in Australia. Over the past five years, there have been 44 workplace fatalities in Victoria's agriculture sector. On average, two people per day are admitted to Victorian hospitals with injuries acquired from farming activities.

Key risk factors include long working hours, use of unsafe or unfamiliar equipment, animal handling, and electrical hazards. These are more than just statistics – they are stories of people, families and communities affected by injuries that could, in many cases, have been prevented. 
Farming activities are also linked to chronic health conditions, such as hearing loss, chronic pain and respiratory problems. These issues can have lasting effects on the wellbeing of our farming communities.

We need to continue to raise awareness, share knowledge, and strengthen our culture of safety and support in farming communities.

Farm safety is about the prevention of physical injuries to ensure overall health and wellbeing of farmers. Those working on farms face challenges due to natural disasters, extreme weather, and a volatile business environment, all of which can put significant strain on mental health. Addressing stress, long hours, and isolation is crucial for making informed decisions about safety on farms.

This podcast season has been developed as part of the Farming Safe and Well program, an initiative aimed at improving the safety and wellbeing of Victorian farmers and their communities.

I want to extend my heartfelt thanks to the farmers and professionals who have had the courage to share their real-life stories of accidents, near-misses and the valuable lessons they've learned.  Farms can be homes as well as workplaces and every person who lives and works on them deserves to be safe, healthy, and supported.   Everyone has the power to make a positive impact on farm safety and wellbeing. I hope this season helps you to make, or keep making, positive change.