AgVic Talk Season 2

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

There's the old adage of a problem shared is a problem halved. It helps a lot though if the person you're sharing with has skin in the game. G'day, I'm Drew Radford and that's arguably the way you could describe Nicole Wells, coordinator for the Farm Community Connect Project for NCN Health. Nicole genuinely believes in making her community a better place. Indeed, she got involved in community support by setting up her own food donation program for those that were struggling in her region. That passion is now being applied to help support primary producers in her area. To find out how, she joins us from her very rainy office for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Drew Radford:

Nicole, thanks for your time.

Nicole Wells:

Thank you for having me.

Drew Radford:

Nicole, there's a couple of things I want to understand before we go much further. NCN Health. What does that actually stand for?

Nicole Wells:

NCN stands for Nathalia, Cobram and Numurkah. It's an amalgamation of the three health services over that area.

Drew Radford:

Your role now, you look after the Farm Community Connect Project. What actually does that mean when you pull that term apart?

Nicole Wells:

It can feel quite vague as community development does. But my goal is to support the community, the farming community, to identify issues that are important to them, and then support them to build capacity so that they can manage their mental health and also address issues in ways that work for them.

Drew Radford:

To the outsider, they could sound like a list of terms that you might expect to hear. But my understanding about you is you're very personally passionate about community development. In fact, you got into the role by basically setting up food donations for your just general community, didn't you?

Nicole Wells:

Yes, I did. I live in this community. My children are growing up in this community. I have friends here and I want to make sure that we're all thriving together, that nobody's left behind. So yes, I have a deep, passionate interest in this because it affects me and the people that I care about.

Drew Radford:

This project though, is beyond the town boundaries, for want of a better description, but that's only looking at a geographical boundary, isn't it? Because really in that region, everything's interconnected.

Nicole Wells:

Yeah. Our community is reliant on farmers. We are a farming community, so it doesn't really matter if a person is a farmer themselves. What happens to our farmers affects everybody.

Drew Radford:

So, Nicole, what are some of the challenges and vulnerabilities you see with your local rural community?

Nicole Wells:

Like a lot of people, they've been hammered time and time again with flood, drought, flood again, drought again. It's constant. And now there's COVID, which has just made people more isolated and all of the issues with the war that's happening as well. It's made prices higher, so people are less able to afford healthy food. COVID's meant that social isolation and the anxiety from connecting socially again has had an impact on the community, businesses have struggled. There's just so many factors and they all are interconnected. They all affect every part of the community and our farmers as well.

Drew Radford:

That's quite a broad list, Nicole. Is the project trying to deal with any particular cohorts or groups of people to try and deal with some of the issues that they're facing?

Nicole Wells:

Yeah, the issues are really complex and we have to tackle it from a complex angle. So we are trying to have quite a smaller aim when we tackle these issues because it can get too out of hand and become bigger than Ben-Hur. So our goal is to, I suppose, deliver more opportunities in the area for people to socially connect so they can support each other and build those stronger networks that people need. First and foremost, that's one of the most important things when it comes to supporting people's mental health is to provide opportunities for them to connect and to support each other.

Nicole Wells:

Secondly to that, we are trying to support people a little bit through a gendered lens, which I don't normally like to do because I like things to be a lot more inclusive. But when it comes to the farming community, we can really tackle things by aiming some of the opportunities to women, because we know from the way that the farming community works and most communities work, that women are really the main nurturers. They're the ones that are supporting themselves, their partners, their children, and the wider community. And so if we can support women, then we can help those women to become stronger and have the capacity to help themselves and others a lot better.

Nicole Wells:

And that's the way that we get to the men, who generally, I don't like to stereotype, but generally the part of the community who are less likely to seek support and less likely to look after themselves. So we really tackle the issue when we come to supporting women a bit different from men. So with the women, we take them out for lunch. We provide them opportunities to really rest and relax and recuperate and to access support, resources, information, and educational materials and opportunities by bringing speakers into those spaces, by just giving them some handouts and letting them know what's around them, but also providing workshops like mental health, first aid and things like that they can access.

Nicole Wells:

When it comes to supporting men, we do it a little bit differently. We go out to them on the farm, because we know that they're less likely to leave the farm and we try to have barbecues on the farm and bring all of those opportunities to them there.

Drew Radford:

So with things like the barbecues, for instance, is it just for that particular family you'd be visiting or are you encouraging their neighbors to come along as well?

Nicole Wells:

Yeah, definitely. We encourage them to host on their farm and then invite their friends and the people that they know around them. And we try through the dairy providers and service providers, we try to access other people that are in that area to come along as well. We'll do a bit of a walk around their farm. They can talk about what they do. People are encouraged to ask questions, build a bit of a relationship or a connection if they don't otherwise know that person or that family. And then we sit down, have a barbecue, have a cuppa and then have a bit of a chat about things. And we get a really good sense of where people are at and what they're looking for and then we can build our response around that.

Drew Radford:

It's a really interesting multi-prong approach you've got, for want of a better description. Is it generally the women that you approach first? Is it trying to gain that doorway through to the male side of the community?

Nicole Wells:

Because I've never done this before, I didn't know who to approach. And so I was a part of the CWA a few years ago and I approached some CWA women that are in the area. And so that was my first contact, was the women in the area, the farming women. And they helped me to build those networks and connections because I knew that they were well known, they were trusted and they were really keen to help. That was my in, but I don't know if everybody does it that way or if that's the best approach. That was just the way that I knew how to do it.

Drew Radford:

What are you hearing in terms of how that's being received by the community?

Nicole Wells:

It's been a slow buildup. I think it takes a long time to build trust and I think that's just due to the nature of the way these services work. So we're given funding to deliver support and then that funding is taken away, so trust is lost in that process where we say we're going to do things, not really a lot is done. A few boxes are ticked. The support's not made sustainable, and then it's taken away. So I'm very mindful that that's been the experience of our community and most communities when it comes to the community development type support that's rolled out.

Nicole Wells:

So I am very careful when it comes to building relationships that I'm building strong, meaningful relationships, and that I'm not just doing it through the lens of, "I have this project, I have this funding. I need to do X, Y, Z." I actually make it more meaningful and I try really hard to make sure that the relationships I'm building and the work that I'm doing is sustainable and is meaningful and that it's not just going to be pulled out from underneath everybody again.

Drew Radford:

Nicole, you had quite a list there of various things that you're doing. Are there any particular types of engagement that are working really well?

Nicole Wells:

So we're still at the beginning of the project and so the things that are working well for me at the moment are that I'm delivering some community engagement stalls. So I go out into the community and I usually will go to a Lion's market or to another event that somebody else is running. Say, it's through the Cobram Community House, because I'm supporting the entire Moira Shire area and also the Strathbogie Shire area.

Nicole Wells:

But I can go to the Cobram Community House, I can attend one of their functions. They have a lot of social connection, lunches and morning teas, and I can go there and I can talk to people through that group. So I can go and do my engagement, my consultation, and getting to know the communities through those other things that they're doing. I know that the people in those spaces are wanting to connect with other people and are wanting to do the things that I'm wanting to use, those opportunities to connect with people.

Nicole Wells:

So I start with those people who are kind of the champions in the community who want to connect and want to help and then I use that to gain access to the more broader community through them. So their friends, their family, the people they're connected with. What's coming up in Euroa is a sale yards event, so we're going along with some other stakeholders to the sale yards to connect with farmers through that. So there's lots of ways that I can get in and speak to people those ways.

Drew Radford:

I know you said that it's early days, but are you seeing an impact on the individual level yet? And if so, what?

Nicole Wells:

Yeah, I do, but not a lot of individuals. So the only way this is going to work really well is if I can access quite a few individuals. So my approach has to be on a collective level. People need to be coming together through the social connection, activities and events that I'll eventually be delivering to collectively be discussing this together, to be coming to some sort of agreement on what they're wanting together and to really be working on it from a collective angle.

Nicole Wells:

So I'm working on delivering some mental health first aid events and opportunities for people to come along and learn as a group how to support themselves and others in their community. So that the onus has taken off the health service and the other support services around them and it's put on the community that they know if they're talking to one of their friends or a family member, and that person brings up that they're struggling, they will know how to respond to that. And they don't feel like they're helpless or that they're overwhelmed by what's happening. So we really need to be building those skills within the community.

Drew Radford:

Those skills and that sense of empowerment are incredibly important. I imagine also that you sign post to other services where additional helps needed that perhaps the individual can't resolve themselves.

Nicole Wells:

Of course. Partnership is one of the key ways of me doing this work effectively. Without partnership, I'm going to get nowhere. So I have partnered with AgriSafe and I work alongside an agri clinic clinician, and I make sure that I'm working alongside them to deliver opportunities. So one of the things that we're looking at doing myself and an AgriSafe clinician quite soon actually, is to invite some farmers from the community to a local pub where they are familiar with that space and we're going to talk about the sorts of things that AgriSafe can do to support them and that I can do to support them. That's one thing that we can do.

Nicole Wells:

I also partner with the other health services, so I'm also supporting the Strathbogie Shire community. I am just one human being and I couldn't possibly support the Moira Shire and the Strathbogie Shire all on my own. So I'm really leaning on the Euroa Medical Centre, Euroa Health, Nexus Primary Health, and then other health services and the Shire and other people that support farmers in that area to help do this work with me. I can do a lot of the planning and a lot of the background work, but they really need to be the ones that are out there in the community, building those relationships and delivering that.

Drew Radford:

Well, you are only one person, indeed, Nicole, but it sounds like you've given it a really good crack in terms of trying to support as many as you can. Nicole, what's success mean? What would success look like for the community for you?

Nicole Wells:

I have really big dreams as you can probably hear, so I really just want to see people thriving. Success to me isn't being wealthy or having things. To me, it's feeling content and fulfilled and like your life is meaningful. So success to me would be if the people who I'm supporting feel like they're coping and feel like they have people around them who care about them and that they have opportunities to connect with those people and have time away from work. That makes all the difference. It has to be meaningful in the end.

Drew Radford:

Nicole, you're joining us from a location where it is absolutely coming down cats and dogs. We can hear the rain on the roof there. I'd imagine that's a positive thing for the rural community you're supporting?

Nicole Wells:

It is positive, yes. We're having one of the best seasons in our area for a long time, so farmers are quite happy at the moment. But we don't want too much. That's always the problem is that it can go very easily from drought into flood and that's the last thing we need is a winter that's too wet.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, Nicole, how can farmers and their families contact you?

Nicole Wells:

Yeah, so they can connect with me by contacting NCN Health and calling the main NCN Health number. They can also email. Everything's on the website. It's very easy to find. They can just ask for myself and I can let them know how I can support them, or they can work with me. I would love to work with some people. I need some more champions in the community. So I'm very keen on people contacting me if they're interested.

Drew Radford:

Well, Nicole, the community sounds very fortunate to actually have you in there working on this project and supporting them. Nicole Wells coordinator for the Farm Community Project with NCN Health. Thank you for joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Nicole Wells:

Thank you so much, Drew.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up-to-date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Located in the heart of one of Australia's key dairy regions is Ellinbank smart farm. Ellinbank is where important research is being conducted for the dairy sector, focusing on things such as improving nutrient management and also reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

Drew Radford:

G'day. I'm Drew Radford and beyond these crucial research undertakings, it's also a place that helps with upskilling and is often a gateway for those keen on getting involved with dairying and agriculture. Senior research scientist and Ellinbank site leader is Dr. Sharon Aarons, and to find out more about their key role in the sector, she joins me for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Drew Radford:

Sharon, thanks for your time.

Sharon Aarons:

Thanks, Drew, for having me.

Drew Radford:

Sharon, where is Ellinbank, and why is it called a smart farm?

Sharon Aarons:

Ellinbank is one of the Agriculture Victoria Research locations in West Gippsland. It is about an hour to the east of Melbourne, just 10 kilometers south of Warragul, the nearest town.

Sharon Aarons:

Ellinbank is a smart farm because it's a place where a number of new technologies and innovations are researched and demonstrated to improve productivity for farmers on their commercial properties.

Drew Radford:

So, Sharon, what sort of research has been undertaken at Ellinbank smart farm?

Sharon Aarons:

There's a wide range of research being undertaken at the Ellinbank smart farm. A primary goal of the Ellinbank smart farm is to become carbon-neutral by 2026, and so a lot of the research is focused towards that as well as, of course, increasing productivity for the dairy industry.

Sharon Aarons:

The research I'm involved with around manure management is to manage that manure to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and increase the availability of nutrients that farmers can then use on their farms.

Drew Radford:

So, Sharon, what other sort of research has been undertaken to try and help that drive towards carbon neutrality?

Sharon Aarons:

Research being undertaken there includes investigating different types of feed additives to reduce enteric methane research, research looking at amendments to manure to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases, and also looking at anaerobic digestion of manure.

Drew Radford:

You're in a great location, too. I imagine it's quite important to the Gippsland local region as well. Prime dairy country.

Sharon Aarons:

That's right. Gippsland provides about a third of milk production for the dairy sector. Victoria is the predominant producer of dairy products for Australia and within Victoria, Gippsland is a really key region, one of the three major dairy regions for the dairy industry.

Drew Radford:

Now, Sharon, I understand the smart farm is important also for agricultural students. What role do they play there?

Sharon Aarons:

The smart farm plays a really key role in trying to upskill the industry more broadly. We look at upskilling people who traditionally work in the agricultural sector, but also look at upskilling people who would not necessarily consider agriculture a career of choice. So we have, and I have over the years, worked with a range of groups who come through to encourage and interest them in agriculture and also to expand their understanding of the key issues related to agriculture.

Drew Radford:

Not only students, but you also work with industry and organizations like the Gardiner Dairy Foundation, and I understand that supports the Monash Industry Team Initiative. How does that all work?

Sharon Aarons:

So you're right. We do have a strong focus working with various organizations. Gardiner, of course, works with Ellinbank and Agriculture Victoria Research more broadly in terms of funding various types of research over the years.

Sharon Aarons:

But more recently, there has been a partnership, I guess, between Gardiner and the Monash Industry Team Initiative program run through the University of Monash and ourselves to encourage students who may come from non-agriculture backgrounds to consider careers in agriculture, and at the same time, address problems that are unique to the agriculture and to the dairy sector.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like a wonderful melting pot or interface in terms of, well, you're in prime dairy country, you've got this facility there. But you've also then got the industry connections and also the tertiary connections, so it must make it quite an attractive place for scientists and researchers.

Sharon Aarons:

One of the advantages, I think, particularly for our research is that although we are based at Ellinbank and we, obviously, have done research at Ellinbank, a lot of our work has also been on commercial properties. We have also worked with industry partners such as milk processing companies.

Sharon Aarons:

So when we have had the opportunity to have students on-board, we've really been able to introduce them to aspects of farming through the fact that we've got a research farm at Ellinbank so they get to understand the components. Then we can take them to a commercial dairy farm. We've got a number of partner dairy farms that we have worked with depending on the projects that we're working on and so they exposed there. Then we can also take them to processing plants where they also get another aspect of the dairy industry.

Sharon Aarons:

So it's really been a particularly unique program and, because of that real push to also get them not only considering pre-farm gate issues, but post-farm gate issues, the program really lends itself to supporting that.

Drew Radford:

Sharon, you speak about this quite passionately. What do you enjoy about working in the industry, especially your work with early career professionals and students?

Sharon Aarons:

Yes. You're right, Drew. I am particularly passionate about working with the dairy industry and working with dairy farmers, providing them with technology that helps them to improve nutrient management.

Sharon Aarons:

But I'm also equally passionate about working with young students and encouraging them to address some of the challenges of agriculture and the dairy industry. I'm really passionate about encouraging students to continue in science, equally passionate about supporting women in STEM roles. So I think working with this unique nexus of Gardiner, AVR and the Monash Industry Team Initiative program is really meeting that need and fulfilling that interest.

Drew Radford:

Sharon, you mentioned one of your passions is working with women in science, technology, engineering, maths, STEM, otherwise known as. Have you seen a dramatic change in that in your career? I mean, you've been doing this for 30-odd years. What's the mix like, and are you seeing more young women embracing the industry?

Sharon Aarons:

Yes, I have to say that I am seeing that. I'm actually seeing in our department a real drive to encourage greater participation of women and also ensuring that they are continuing on and be able to fulfill their own passions in terms of working in this space and in STEM.

Sharon Aarons:

There are various programs that I have interacted with, some within the local region in Buln Buln, an example, being LLEN Program with STEM Sisters, and so have been able to support young high school students who come through to Ellinbank and get introduced to the range of female scientists working there and how they started their careers and where their careers have progressed.

Sharon Aarons:

We haven't done it, unfortunately, the last couple of years because of COVID, but we've had regularly a speed date lunch where these young Year 10 students get to meet the range of scientists, but also people who have a background in science, but maybe now working in biosecurity who are working with the Earth Resources and Regulation Agency who are engineers, for instance. It's really exciting to be in the room and see these young students understanding what it's like to take on a science career and where it can lead you as well.

Drew Radford:

Lastly, Sharon, what would you say to someone interested in a career in agriculture, but they just don't know how to get started?

Sharon Aarons:

I would recommend that someone interested in a career in agriculture contact Agriculture Victoria Ellinbank, speak to the receptionist, the front of house, who will then direct them to an appropriate staff member, either someone in research or someone in the agriculture services section, who can then guide them in terms of the options and the approaches that they can take to entering agriculture.

Drew Radford:

Sharon, I understand that you've actually seen people come in as work experience, and then later on blossom into careers.

Sharon Aarons:

Yes. That's right, Drew. I was very pleased to host a young person who was doing their undergraduates in science. They worked with us over summer undertaking some research, but then were able to go on from that to get a job in the agriculture services section of Agriculture Victoria. So the opportunities there that can lead to further work and a career in agriculture really results from taking that very first step, reaching out and calling.

Drew Radford:

Dr. Sharon Aarons mentioned that collaboration with educational and industry partners is central to the work conducted at Ellinbank. One of these is the Gardiner Dairy Foundation. Ashley Rosewarne, who is people and community development projects coordinator with the foundation says the $80 million worth of support they have so far contributed to the dairy sector began nearly two decades ago.

Ashley Rosewarne :

The Gardiner Dairy Foundation was actually created back in 2000. It came about with the funding from the sales of assets of milk brands, such as Rev, Bega, Skinny Milk, and these were all sold off as part of deregulation of the dairy industry. So we've been able to contribute over $80 million back into the industry and just to benefit the Victorian dairy industry, specifically.

Drew Radford:

Ashley, you work in a number of partnerships and you make a number of things happen. Now I understand you work with the Monash Industry Team Initiative program. It's a bit of a mouthful. What do you do with them?

Ashley Rosewarne :

With the MITI program, it's a major investment as part of our people development portfolio so we support a lot of the dairy manufacturing sector. It places students in dairy manufacturing and research organizations for 12 weeks during their summer holidays, which run from December to February.

Ashley Rosewarne :

The great thing about the program is it exposes city-based students to living and working in the dairy industry and amongst Regional Victoria. The soil science team has hosted summer internship program since 2016.

Drew Radford:

Sounds like a fantastic rural life opportunity for students to get involved with and also help solve problems for the dairy sector. I understand they work at a specific site as well, Ellinbank.

Ashley Rosewarne :

Yeah. A lot of the projects that Ellinbank have actually worked with is involved in research with the farmers and with processes, with the policy and the biosecurity. So a lot of the projects we've seen in the past are herd management, nutrition, technology and manure management, and also new technologies to improve wastewater.

Drew Radford:

Aside from financial import, what support does Gardiner provide the students who take part in the program?

Ashley Rosewarne :

We work really closely with our project partners, such as Ellinbank and the AgVic team, to ensure the students fulfill a great learning experience and a great project proposal from the team.

Ashley Rosewarne :

We also work with MITI and the team at Monash who recruit the students, and we actually give them an induction day to introduce them to the industry.

Drew Radford:

What are the skills that the MITI team brings to business?

Ashley Rosewarne :

The skills that the team brings is not only are you introducing a young team of vibrant students to kind of shake up the corporate world, but they also have the adaptability that they bring.

Ashley Rosewarne :

So the project proposal might be something pretty simple, and they'll come in and work something else that could be the underlying issue. They might solve that problem in two weeks and then be able to say, "Hey guys, we found something else that's underlying that we need to fix up." It's really funny on how much the projects develop over the 12 weeks and what they really get out of it, too.

Ashley Rosewarne :

It also exposes the students to that paddock-to-plate concept. A lot of the students don't really know the diversity in agricultural roles and the complexities of something so simple, like bottling milk or making cheese so it's really great to see the students learn that out of the program.

Drew Radford:

Ashley, you mentioned the diversity in agriculture roles, and you don't come from an agricultural background. I understand you're a city girl, but you kind of fell in love with working with the ag sector. So what would you say to someone considering a career in agriculture, but doesn't know how to get started?

Ashley Rosewarne :

I always just say just go for it. The range of roles are endless in agriculture. Honestly, you can work in nutrition, science, technology, engineering, my case kind of media and comms and marketing. So just find what you're good at and what you like doing, and then you can definitely find something that's in agriculture that suits your skills.

Ashley Rosewarne :

I also tell people just to network, network, network. People are so friendly and willing to have a chat, and having a mentor is always great to ask those questions and provide you with endless opportunities.

Drew Radford:

Well, Ashley, it certainly sounds like you've found a whole raft of opportunities that you've pursued and gone down the agricultural path. May that continue for you, Ashley Rosewarne, people and community development projects coordinator at Gardiner Dairy Foundation. Thank you for taking the time and joining us in the AgVic Talk Studio today.

Ashley Rosewarne :

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

Speaker 1:

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant, before making any changes on farm. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorized by the Victorian Government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

We acknowledge the traditional Aboriginal Owners of Country throughout Victoria, their ongoing connection to this land, and we pay our respects to their culture and their Elders past, present and future.

At the start of a career, a young person is often faced with a choice: work or study. Traineeships, though, provide a middle ground where gaining a qualification is part of your work.

Drew Radford:

Good day, I'm Drew Radford, and that was the opportunity Caylem Roberts was looking for. And he found it in the form of the Youth Employment Scheme, otherwise known as YES. Where he's working and gaining a certificate in horticulture. To find out more, he joins us for this AgVic Talk podcast. Caylem, thanks for joining us.

Caylem Roberts:

It's a pleasure to be here.

Drew Radford:

Caylem, whereabouts is the Tatura SmartFarm?

Caylem Roberts:

The Tatura SmartFarm is in Tatura, fifteen minutes out from Shepparton,

Drew Radford:

Caylem, What's your background?

Caylem Roberts:

Yeah, I'm a Taungurung, Yorta Yorta man born and raised in Shepparton.

Drew Radford:

So you've got a strong traditional, cultural connection with the land. Have you got a lot of family in the region?

Caylem Roberts:

Yeah, yeah. I got a fair few family members around.

Drew Radford:

Caylem, how did you get into the traineeship?

Caylem Roberts:

I actually seen it advertised on the internet and was currently doing some farm work beforehand. So I thought it'd be a good opportunity.

Drew Radford:

Does the traineeship involve study as well?

Caylem Roberts:

Yes, it does. I'm currently studying a Cert III in production horticulture.

Drew Radford:

And how long does that course go for, Caylem?

Caylem Roberts:

That goes for this year. So I started January.

Drew Radford:

Do you think your experience through the traineeship will have an impact on your career path moving forward?

Caylem Roberts:

Yeah, I hope I take a lot from this opportunity that they've given me and keep the ball rolling.

Drew Radford:

Caylem, would you recommend a career in agriculture to other young people?

Caylem Roberts:

Oh yeah. Most definitely. I feel like it's a good place to start and you can stay around for as long as you want, also. That's always going to be here.

Drew Radford:

Caylem, have you been surprised about the amount of technology that's now involved with farming?

Caylem Roberts:

Yeah, definitely. I had no idea that the amount of technology that goes into farming actually went into farming. I thought it was just pretty straightforward, planting a seed and hope for it to grow, but turns out it's not like that.

Drew Radford:

Caylem, what do you see are some of the advantages of undertaking a traineeship?

Caylem Roberts:

I feel like it's just the fact that it's employment and study at the same time. Yeah, you can't really go wrong with that.

Drew Radford:

What are your plans for the future? Do you think you're going to stay in agriculture?

Caylem Roberts:

I'd like to stay in agriculture, but honestly who knows what the future holds.

Drew Radford:

Maybe the technology will entice you to go down even a more tech side.

Caylem Roberts:

Yeah. Potentially, yeah.

Drew Radford:

Do you think that this is also an opportunity for those that work with you to learn more about your culture and your background?

Caylem Roberts:

Yeah. Yeah. I definitely do. I feel like indigenous people have a spot in agriculture and horticulture, we've been farming land for 80,000 plus years. Yeah. It would definitely be good to share my side of things as well to my fellow workers.

Drew Radford:

After your experiences of working in agriculture, can you see the opportunity to incorporate traditional farming practices into mainstream farming to add value?

Caylem Roberts:

Yeah, definitely. I feel like just a stronger connection even between farmers and indigenous people or in traditional ways of farming would favor both parties. Not only would it create some more jobs for indigenous people, but it would also better for the environment. The more traditional you go.

Drew Radford:

Trying to create pathways into agriculture for young Aboriginal people like Caylem is more than just a job for my next guest. Russell Adcock sees it as an important element in achieving self-determination, and his role as Senior Aboriginal Employment and Engagement Advisor with Agriculture Victoria helps make that happen. It's a role that Russell came to with plenty of farm dirt on his boots.

Russell Adcock:

Yeah, that's for sure, Drew. My grandfather, Bes Murray, he was overseer on a property called Yanga Station up in Balranald, and Yanga Station was the biggest freehold property in the Southern Hemisphere. Yanga consisted of 290,000 acres, beautiful part of the earth up there at Balranald on the banks of the Murrumbidgee. So my grandfather spent a lot of time with, he reared me, he and Nan, from a bit of a later age.

Russell Adcock:

So I grew up there. Pop, being overseer on the property, spent a lot of time mustering and riding horses out through that country and through the flood water, mustering sheep and cattle, and then, a lot of great grandfather and great uncles as well. Also pretty well running and horsebreakers up through that Murrumbidgee area and Murray area. So my people, they originally are Mamba, coming out of around Swan Hill, Moulamein area. Yeah. So my people originally from there but all renowned horsebreakers and horse people from there. So yeah. Agriculture is in my blood, you'd probably say, Drew.

Drew Radford:

I understand you still do a bit of horsebreaking in your spare time, but your full-time job involves helping get young Aboriginal people working in agriculture. What's that involve?

Russell Adcock:

Within the employment sector here in agriculture, my job here is about informing the department on Aboriginal employment. So where jobs will be best suited for Aboriginal people. And the main thing with that too, Drew, we've got to be careful. I've got to be very careful in advising the department. We don't want to go and pull Aboriginal people away from their community and their community orgs. We want to try and work with community to professionally develop Aboriginal people locally to then go back and better assist their own mob.

Russell Adcock:

And, you know, that relates back to self-determination. So we don't want to be seen as a government department coming into town, pulling Aboriginal people away from their own mob and giving them a job in government because history sort of explains for itself that it's not a real good thing for government to do. You know? So it's about walking in two worlds, both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal world, and advising government or agriculture on the best practice and best way to go about finding employment opportunities for Aboriginal people in agriculture.

Drew Radford:

Is this how you came to be working with Caylem? Because he's at Tatura SmartFarm, but that's not far from where he lives too. And his family area as well, from what I understand.

Russell Adcock:

Yeah, that's correct. So yeah, Caylem, yeah. Good young fella. Caylem actually also has links to be Balranald as well. So my job, working with Caylem, is just advising his managers on cultural safety and the best way to manage Caylem, and work program as well. So yeah, that's how I met Caylem, and yeah, and just sort of yarning to him, giving him that culturally safe spot just where he can debrief, and have that talk with another Aboriginal male.

Drew Radford:

And I imagine that mentoringship must be particularly important. Cause it sounds like you straddle that space, really.

Russell Adcock:

Yeah. Look, it's extremely important. As I said before, it's hard enough for Aboriginal people to be able to walk in two worlds, within your own people, but also work for government. It's a pretty tough world, and it's something that you either can do it or you can't do it. And what it takes is a bit of strong mentoring, and the right mentoring to be able to help that young person through their career.

Russell Adcock:

If I can give these young people the best advice possible to give them the best experience within agriculture and working within agriculture in the government department, I think my job's sort of done. We don't want people leaving the department thinking, oh, you know that department's not culturally safe, that's a bit racist. I don't want young people thinking that because gets to the Koori grapevine and next minute, no one will come and work for the department. You know? So my job's to give them the best advice and best experience possible within the department.

Drew Radford:

You explain that really, really well. Obviously employment opportunities for Aboriginal people are very important to you. How do you see their opportunities in terms of agriculture, and how are the programs like the one Caylem's involved in important?

Russell Adcock:

Oh, shivers, look, first talk about historical agriculture. Back in the day, Aboriginal people played a vital, vital role in opening up the Australian agricultural economy. Some of the best Aboriginal stockmen are still spoken about today. We were front and center. The watering holes, the best soil, even taught them to read the seasons. And also, let's talk about traditional burning, that happened back then too. And, it's only today that the Western society are cottoning back onto it. So, Aboriginal people, it was us that really helped pave the way for agriculture historically.

Russell Adcock:

Unfortunately, today agriculture is seen, to Aboriginal people, as, that desecrated, our culture took our land, took our language, took all our ceremonial practices away and put us on missions, you know? But as I said, historically, and we had some of the best shearers going around were Aboriginal people. Let's talk about Uncle David Unaipin. Aboriginal fellow, inventor. Invented the modern day shearing plant.

Drew Radford:

And he's on the $50 note.

Russell Adcock:

And he's on the $50 note. So if you've got a spare one, you can send it up to me, Drew, I might be able to frame it. So we've played a very, very big role in agriculture. And we were highly regarded. Unfortunately, today, agriculture's deemed to be, it's not really highly regarded within Aboriginal people, which is a shame, but there's so much great opportunities within agriculture. And you think about them, one, we can get Aboriginal people back out on the country. We can get them reconnected to land, and look, the spirituality within Aboriginal people working with stock, they're some of the best stock handlers you've ever seen, because they know how to read an animal, know how to read a beast, know where the stock's watering from, read the seasons. That just comes naturally to Aboriginal people. Now, we've got to be able to provide that opportunity back to young Aboriginal people, to provide that good opportunity within agriculture, not be deemed as, pinching our culture, pinching our language, pinching our land.

Russell Adcock:

We've got to be able to sell it in the right way, provide the opportunity for Aboriginal people to be reconnected back to country and back to their culture. If we can do that in the right way, well, employment opportunities are going to come and Aboriginal people will be able to take what they've learned from Agriculture Victoria back to their own traditional communities and be able to recreate traditional farming practices in their own cultural shape today. So it's a great opportunity. We're only early into the project. I've only been here 12 months, but I feel we are going to get there.

Drew Radford:

You have a great passion for it, Russell, and I imagine this really feeds into self-determination. What does that mean to you?

Russell Adcock:

Drew self-determination to me? Well, you think about it. Government departments have sat down and spoke at Aboriginal communities and Aboriginal people. Self-determination to me is government departments sitting down, talking with Aboriginal people. If my job can create that safe scene, that's seen as safe and deemed safe by Aboriginal community, to sit down and talk with Agriculture Victoria on opportunities they see their young people to economically advance in, in agriculture. To me that's self-determination, that sitting down and what community want. Not sitting down, talking at community. So we sit down, talk with community quite a bit, quite a lot actually. And the First People in the middle of The Mallee up there at Mildura sit down and yarn to them, and we talk to them regularly. How can you see employment within agriculture advancing up in your neck of the woods? You know? Yeah. It's the first time ever, but yeah, so much has happened up there for First People. That is true self-determination to me, Drew.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like the work that you're doing with Agriculture Victoria, certainly centers around that, Russell.

Russell Adcock:

Oh, shivers yeah. That's for sure, Drew. You got to be in the know, you got to be able to sit down and talk to community. COVID's been a bit hard, bit hard to get in the car and, and go up and connect with mob. On the telephone, on the computer, it's not the same. Aboriginal people, they want to look you in the eye. They want to pick up on your body language to make sure that you're not gaming around and you're talking sense. And stick to your word. Rapport in Aboriginal community, that's built through honesty and hard work. It's not built out of cappuccinos and lattes, mates. So yeah, you got to sort of get in and a dig, you know?

Drew Radford:

Well, Russell Adcock, it really sounds like you are the guy for getting stuck in and having a dig and building rapport. You're doing remarkable work. And thank you so much for joining us in the AgVic Talk studio today to share your story with us.

Russell Adcock:

No, my pleasure, Drew, my pleasure. Lovely to meet you and talk with you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback. So please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria. Authorised by the Victorian Government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk. Keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Almost half of all Australians have both parents, or at least one of them born overseas. Despite this high proportion, only 11 per cent of the agricultural workforce comes from a culturally and linguistically diverse background, otherwise known as CALD. This small percentage means that the sector misses out on diverse skills, experience and the ideas that they bring.

Drew Radford:

G’day, I'm Drew Radford, and a person who understands this firsthand is Vidura Delpitiya, otherwise known in his community as Del. He has a degree in agriculture, and he used to manage tea plantations in Sri Lanka. Twenty years ago he made the choice to leave it all behind and bring his family to Australia.

Drew Radford:

Yet despite his education and experience, the first job he could get was washing cars, and then it took a long time until he could get into agriculture, and even then, he started as a farmhand. Now, he's helping others from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds get started in the agricultural sector. To find out how, and also what benefits it brings to both the sector and the communities, Del joins us for this AgVic Talk podcast. Thanks for your time.

Del Delpitiya:

Thank you, Drew.

Drew Radford:

Del, before we go into some of the work that you're doing at the moment, can you tell us a little bit about where you grew up?

Del Delpitiya:

We grew up in Sri Lanka, in the mountains of Sri Lanka. So not in a city. We come from a rural background.

Drew Radford:

So you came from a rural background, and did you end up doing rural work while you were living there?

Del Delpitiya:

Yeah, I did. So I was managing tea plantations in Sri Lanka, so it was quite rural. So we, as a family unit, we lived and worked in the rural areas in Sri Lanka.

Drew Radford:

Had that been a generational kind of thing? Did your dad or your grandparents work in tea plantations?

Del Delpitiya:

Yes, Drew, it did. So it was the norm for me to join the tea plantation industry. My father, my grandfather from both my father's side and from my mother's side, were tea planters or worked in the tea plantations for a very long time. So it was yeah, normal for me to.

Drew Radford:

So agriculture is well and truly in your blood, Del but, moving to the other side of the world is, I would argue, probably not in your background. So what made you make that decision?

Del Delpitiya:

The kids were growing up and we had to make a decision whether we are going to send the family off to a nearby city in Sri Lanka while I stay back in the tea plantation, and so we had to make that decision fast and we thought, "No. We are not going to separate, stay separate. We'd rather migrate so that we can stay together."

Drew Radford:

You say that reasonably simply but I imagine that was a very big decision, Del.

Del Delpitiya:

It was, Drew. It was very hard to leave friends and family and the networks behind. Yes, I must admit, honestly, that we were quite excited too, to come to a new country. I think the foundations were laid in the tea plantations industry anyway because we get transferred between estates every two or so years. You don't stay, so you'll be packing, unpacking, moving, settling down to a new environment is normal during childhood. That's how I grew up, and then while I was working for the veneers in the tea plantation industry as well so, the family was sort of used to it.

Drew Radford:

Yes, I can see in terms of the logistics, you're used to it. But moving to Australia is quite a big move, and what did you arrive with, and did you have any connections when you came here?

Del Delpitiya:

No, Drew. None at all. Didn't have any friends or family in Australia. It was just through migration agents. The mechanism to come didn't even have someone to welcome me at the airport when I arrived in Perth. I came first to organise things before the family arrived a month later, so it was a brand new experience from finding a place to stay for a few days or weeks until I find a job, to getting from the airport to that place, all that I had to navigate through.

Drew Radford:

That's a lot of pressure, Del, with the family coming, and I assume the need to find a job, because I understand you didn't exactly land with a lot of money in your pocket either.

Del Delpitiya:

Yes, that's right, Drew. I didn't have much money. We were really well looked after. So I was a senior executive in the tea plantation industry in Sri Lanka. Well looked after with all the perks, but the lifestyles gets adjusted to that income. We didn't have much saving so, I came to Australia with $5,000 in my pocket. Half of that was borrowed money from friends, and that $5,000 didn't go long. I still remember, $2,000 to buy a secondhand car, $780 for a deposit for a flat. Bought a laptop for $1,100, without laptop, that's basic in Australia for applying for jobs and everything else, and the rest was spent on garage sales, collecting everything to prepare for the family.

Drew Radford:

So you really don't have a lot of margin there for things to go wrong. So you got to find a job. So did you gravitate to what you knew in terms of agriculture?

Del Delpitiya:

Initially, I didn't. I just went with what was available. I was applying for jobs in various sectors. I just wanted a job. I just wanted that income flowing in fortnightly, so I just went for whatever I could grab, and the first job that I got interviewed and selected was washing cars in a Nissan and Mitsubishi dealership in Mandurah, and I took it. That was within a week of arriving in Mandurah, south of Perth. But yes. You are right. I really, really wanted to get back into agriculture.

Del Delpitiya:

My wife could sense and see that I wasn't happy. I was happy in monetary terms and I had a job and I got promoted in that job. We spent nine months in Mandurah, but she could see that, so she was encouraging me to keep applying, and I did. I had lots and lots of rejections or no shows into agriculture. I applied for various jobs, from a worker to supervisor to traineeships in various agronomic and farms, and I applied for a lot of, but didn't get selected, and then this was one chance that I got from this particular advertisement in Victoria that I got picked.

Drew Radford:

What was that chance?

Del Delpitiya:

I came across this advertisement online for a traineeship on a dairy farm in northeast Victoria in Cudgewa. I think the only difference there was, between the other rejections, was that this particular didn't have an email. Just had a telephone number. So I called, and the farm owner from the other side answered and we had this conversation, and he basically said, "No, I'm sorry. I need someone with experience. I can't train you." But for some reason, it was a good voice on the other end and he was kind, so sort of kept talking to him, and within about a month I think I convinced him to take me in.

Drew Radford:

That's a fantastic story, and then again, you move your family. And so you're working on a dairy farm. Where's the career go from there?

Del Delpitiya:

Yeah. I arrived at the dairy farm, quite, quite green. The farm owner had to take me through a lot. So that's a fairly big jump in skills for me from the beginning. So that transpires back to the family and the pressure. I had really good support from my wife and the children, because the family, as a unit, acclimatised and adjusted to a new environment or a new society pretty quickly. So that took that pressure off me, but in agriculture, in dairy farming, I had to learn quite quickly. Even though I had a degree in agriculture, I really had to get my skills up from, animal health side to machinery side, to crops and pastures and fencing. So all that. So I started as a trainee, as a farm hand, and then I grew up to be the trainee manager and then the manager, and from there, it just upwards. I became the share farmer very soon, and after nine years in Cudgewa, building equity and getting ready for the next step, and then there, we came into a equity partnership and bought our farm.

Drew Radford:

Del, that's a remarkable story, which you've compressed into a very short path, but such a leap of faith to come from what sounds like a very comfortable existence for you, and well and truly up the career chain, to literally come and start your life again as a farm hand. It's a remarkable story of perseverance, but I think it's probably a pretty common one for people of a cultural and linguistically diverse background coming to Australia and trying to make a fresh start.

Del Delpitiya:

It is. We say in our networks and circles in culturally diverse communities, that we were somebody where we came from, and it's that race towards economic stability and that becoming another somebody in the new society is what drives culturally diverse communities in Australia. So my story is quite common within the cultural diverse communities or newly arrivals in Australia.

Drew Radford:

It's a lot of hard work too, Del, to build that sort of equity and buy your own property in that sort of timeframe. You didn't do that by sitting around watching Netflix all the time.

Del Delpitiya:

That's right, Drew. We did two jobs. We saved a lot. We kept our expenses to a minimum. We needed to get there. So farming, dairy farming inspired me, us. I'm one of those lucky ones that my family loves that lifestyle and what comes with it too. Was super supportive. So it was only one way up for me and for us, so we saved. We started building equity through investments in houses in locally. Yes, you are right. I would, it's a lot of hard work. I would do a lot of renovations, repairs, upkeeps and maintenance of those houses in my free time, which you don't get much of in dairy farming, and even if you do, your body, yeah. You are tired.

Del Delpitiya:

I can remember first couple of weeks coming from Sri Lanka, we used our fingers to have rice, and I couldn't after putting cups on five hundred cows, I couldn't come home, and so my wife had to feed me. From that, from a very small thing to building equity and to get there, no funds arrived from Sri Lanka. This was all what we built or we saved ourselves. That goes to growing our own vegetables, to cutting our own firewood and not buying firewood. That didn't stop there. So our cultural competency for us within that community included volunteer work too. So, if the kids are playing football, Aussie Rules, I'll be there. I still don't know the game, but I was in the club and I, when we left Cudgewa I was managing sponsors, gates, and all that. So it's that acclimatisation and adjustment that you make very quickly.

Drew Radford:

You use the term cultural competency in there. What do you mean by that?

Del Delpitiya:

If I put it out simply Drew, it's about your story. We all have a story to tell. And it's about how we connect with that story with someone else's. And by making that connection, it's about the richness and creativity it brings to society or art to the workplace.

Drew Radford:

That's something you're understandably, very proud of. Indeed, so much so that it's now part of your professional life

Del Delpitiya:

In dairy farming, I didn't see many culture and linguistic diverse people in the industry, and then subsequently I didn't see many others in the other industries either. So that got into the drive, finding out why isn't culturally diverse people engaging in agriculture or treating agriculture as a transitional industry, which we see quite commonly. For example, industry in agriculture workforce, only about 11 percent are from a cultural diverse background. Despite many newly arrivals in Australia come from agricultural background or have, or want to pursue a career in agriculture.

Drew Radford:

You point out very well Del that we have a very low percentage coming into agriculture, despite their background, and despite the rates coming into the country. So how are you helping in that space?

Del Delpitiya:

Through Agriculture Victoria, through Smarter Safer Farms program, what we are looking at is, what are the gaps in that engagement, and understanding about those gaps and some of the strategies to overcome some of these gaps of cultural diverse people. Sometimes, in some workplaces, cultural diverse people or new arrivals have this reluctancy to put their hand up to progress through their careers, hence we don't find many cultural diverse people in the leadership in agriculture, in Victoria, and also in managerial positions. So what we are doing is piece of social research into finding those gaps and then, to work with industry, to work through some solutions. Targeted solutions.

Drew Radford:

I read a wonderful article about you and your principle, and it's kind of basically, pay it forward. So how are you applying that on a personal basis? Beyond the strategy and the policy, how does that work for you on a daily basis?

Del Delpitiya:

The community in Cudgewa took us in no questions asked. Taught us what we know today. The dairy industry took us in. Not only the farm owner, who was my employer and also my educator, not only that farm owner, but the others in the dairy farming community in and around Cudgewa and Corryong.  So everyone taught us something, from how to come to a barbecue if you're invited. How to get to a party, to a school bus. The society took us in and taught us a lot of things, and it still does. So that's how we embrace, and we incorporate cultural competency and awareness within ourselves as a family unit. So how do I give that back to the dairy industry in Victoria? That's where my passion is. Usually, on a daily farm, it's about 25 per cent the labor cost, quite high cost for a dairy farmer.

Del Delpitiya:

So me having networks within the CALD communities across Victoria, through those networks, if I can get that message out, or if I can help industry promote dairy farming into those communities, what a great industry this is, or it could be horticulture. So help industries promote the opportunities that exist within the industries. That's really important. Newly arrivals may or may not have that awareness of career opportunities, because like myself, it's that race towards economic stability that is driving some people, and once they are established, then they're reluctant to move, unless that career pathway is shown. So that's some of the work that I'm doing. For example, at the farm myself and my wife, we used to invite and have sessions at our house. People will come from Albury or Wodonga, Wagga Wagga for the day. There could be about 15 or 20 people, multiple cars that'll come.

Del Delpitiya:

We will feed them, and some will come with, bring a dish, and we will feed them. We will take them through the farm. They'll see me as it is. I will have smelly clothes on after milking and I'll have, they will see me going up and down if I'm working, if I'm on duty, feeding calves. They will see me as it is and they will take that message. That's how culturally diverse people work. It's that trust they build and the word of mouth. So through that, it's about getting that message out to the Sri Lanka community out there, to say, "Come join this industry." And then I, we will talk openly with them, about savings we make, and how did we come up with that deposit to buy this house? So that's what we did, and I can see in a different way or in a different form, that's the same thing I'm still doing in my job.

Drew Radford:

That's a fantastic firsthand experience, and I guess they see that you've managed to achieve that, and then they're encouraged to progress further up, which is the core of what you're talking about, beyond just building a life initially in a community.

Del Delpitiya:

It's about having CALD champions. When I say champions, it's about someone from that community being in a particular industry. So having your champion that is helping someone to relate, to speak to how do I get there? What do I have to do pre and post? When I get there, what's the pathway for me to progress? What do I have to bring? Do I have to have degree? So all those, so having a champion in a industry is really important for a CALD community. So some of the things that industry could do at the moment is to encourage some of those champions, and for them to have pathways or carry progression within that industry or the business.

Drew Radford:

Del, beyond that, what are some of the innovative solutions employers can implement to help employees feel safe and welcomed into their businesses?

Del Delpitiya:

When we talk about diversity inclusion, or cultural competency and awareness, it is a process that a workplace has to go through. If you look at some of the examples like, the work has to be meaningful for the workers. Businesses can look at, why this particular employee is unique and how can I fit this employee to my workplace? That's how it happened with me. My employer looked at myself and looked at what do I bring to the business side? Then fitting me as a milker in the shed. So, workers doesn't have to be a standard fit for a business. It's also about what's important for the employee. What is important for our employee, it's about, why do you go to work? Are you able to make decisions at your workplace or contribute to? Are you bringing your whole self to work? So it's some of those adjustments that the workplace will need to make.

Del Delpitiya:

We are living in a world where we are experiencing the rise of the conscious consumer or businesses have to have corporate responsibilities. So how supportive is the management to the workplace? How positive is the working environment for inclusion and diversity at the workplace? It's about people wanting to balance what matters most in their lives. So I'm talking about employees. What's important to the employees? Is the workplace humanistic? Is that a culture of recognition in the workplace, and having empathy against sympathy in the workplace? So it's not a process that the manager or the farm owner only can go through. It's about the entire workplace going through this process of inclusion. What it will bring is that trust towards the leadership at the workplace.

Drew Radford:

Del, when you talked there about business, what business need to do, but what needs to be done in the community? How important is culturally appropriate resources and housing in those areas?

Del Delpitiya:

It's about accessing those services that are available. For example, if someone wants to move to a regional area, wants to find out about housing, or how do I apply for jobs through resumes, to translation services. So those services are available, whether it's at that regional town, or nearby, or if that person is in Melbourne, those services are available. It's about accessing some of the services. On the flip side, if we look at the broader community, yes, it's a journey for the community as well. From the school teachers to the bus driver, who's driving that child, to the sports or the swimming pool or the football club. You are, as a cultural diverse person going into Cudgewa, out of about 700 people living in Cudgewa, we were the only, or there could have been, say two or three families from cultural diverse backgrounds.

Del Delpitiya:

So you are taking that community through a journey too. So, that's a responsibility that you have to carry, to educate. For example, walking into the green grocer, looking for veggies, yes. They may not have the vegetables that you are used to. So it's about taking that, having that conversation with the green grocer and saying, "Is there a possibility that once a week you could bring some of these vegetables for us?" That's an aha moment for that business as well. So, yes, it's not only one family being employed at a business. It's about that whole community taking that pathway.

Drew Radford:

Well, Del. It sounds like you've done an amazing job of helping take your own community on that pathway, and now helping so many others follow the same path. Thank you for taking the time and sharing your story with us on this AgVic talk podcast.

Del Delpitiya:

Thank you very much, Drew. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 4:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating, and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian government Melbourne.

Caroline Winter:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Kirsten Diprose has combined her passions for supporting rural women and telling stories. A journalist for many years, Kirsten had been plotting her media career when love struck and she moved to Caramut in southwest Victoria, where she now lives and farms with her husband and two boys. She's the co-creator and co-host of Ducks on the Pond, a podcast by rural women for rural women about the realities of being a woman on the land. Hi, I'm Caroline Winter and in this chat, Kirsten shares her personal experiences around rural women's mental health, and in particular, how to reduce the mental load when it gets too much. Kirsten Diprose, thank you for joining me in the AgVic Talk Studio.

Kirsten Diprose:

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Caroline Winter:

Now, Kirsten, you're from southwest Victoria. Tell us about how you found yourself living and working in this part of the state.

Kirsten Diprose:

Yes, well completely accidentally, I guess, is how I would frame it. It's a wonderful part of the world so I'm really happy where I am. But I was working in Melbourne. I'm from Sydney originally and I got a cadetship with the ABC and moved to Melbourne and was really loving it there. I did do a year in Bendigo came back to Melbourne. And then one night out, I met a farmer and the rest is history. We got married, and I moved to a little town called Caramut, which is in between Hamilton and Warrnambool.

Caroline Winter:

So this is a love story?

Kirsten Diprose:

Yes, it is.

Caroline Winter:

The stars aligned and the universe spoke loudly, obviously.

Kirsten Diprose:

That's right.

Caroline Winter:

So you live and work on the farm with your husband and your two boys. But you also still work in the media, though I understand you have a few other strings to your bow rather than just the ABC. So tell us about your Ducks on the Pond Podcast, what it is and what motivated you to create it.

Kirsten Diprose:

So I still love producing content and telling stories. It's just still gives me such a great buzz. And I officially left the ABC a couple of years ago, although I still do a few things for them casually, or you might see me sometimes on the Weather or I do the Victorian Conversation Hour, every so often as a co-host. So I do still enjoy being part of the ABC every now and then. But these days, I'm working I guess as an agriculture communicator. And I've had a few various freelance roles in that. But Ducks on the Pond is my passion project. And it's something I've really, really wanted to do for a long time. And the last couple of years with COVID and homeschooling has made it really difficult to find that extra time.

But finally, last year, we got it together. So I do it with Jackie Elliott, who is another amazing rural woman in my area. She lives in the southwest in Byaduk and she created Rural Women's Day, which is this event. And she sort of made it this great big movement, particularly on social media and on Instagram. And so I thought she'd be a great person to do it with because she's got that audience already established of rural women. And I called her up and put the idea to her. And we went and had coffee, and we chatted about it. And we got along really well. And I can see that she's quite a funny smart woman. So I thought, "Great, she's going to be perfect."

And it almost nearly didn't happen because the day before we were going to record our first episode, she rang me up and she said, "I'm feeling really nervous. I'm not really good at public speaking. I don't think I can do it. I get really nervous when I interview people." And we had a chat about it and I just sort of gently pushed her. Anyway, now she says she's very thankful. So she's loving it now and now has the confidence to go and do her own interviews and put her stuff together which is awesome.

But yeah, the idea of Ducks on the Pond is a podcast for rural women, by rural women because there's nothing out there that fits that bill. There are some fantastic rural podcasts and podcasts that feature rural women, which is amazing. I can list many of them. And I love to listen to them. But our podcast is different in that we are specifically looking at issues and each podcast episode is a theme. So it's really themed based. It could be something around business or it could be around mental health. We talk about physical health, we talk about motherhood. Just basically issues from a rural women's perspective, from that concept that life for us on the land is different to other people's lives.

And I guess I just get tired of reading stuff or hearing stuff or advice about how to do this or that. That doesn't fit my life, the fact that it's a huge logistical challenge for us to do things. I really have to plan my week. For example, I needed to get in contact with a doctor today, and thank goodness for Telehealth, which really only started out of COVID. Otherwise, I'd have to take two hours out of my day to see the doctor. And that's the reality that we live in. We've got logistical challenges, our role on the farm is something that's often being negotiated and worked out whether that's succession planning to kind of just what we do day to day. There are just other challenges that we have. And it's a wonderful life, but it just doesn't fit the kind of mainstream life that most people lead. And so therefore, all of the kind of advice stuff that I love to listen to podcasts about finance, about how to be successful at work and all of that stuff, but it doesn't quite fit. So, that's what this podcast is about.

Caroline Winter:

It sounds like the topics that resonate with you and Jackie, your co host, are probably the ones that make the lineup. I am curious, though, the title, Ducks on the Pond, what does that mean?

Kirsten Diprose:

Yes, it's an old shearing shed saying. So back in the 1800s, in rural Australia, the men in the shearing shed would call out ‘ducks on the pond’ if they saw a woman approaching. So it was a way of saying to the blokes around you, "Okay. Curb your language and let's act appropriately because a lady is approaching." So that's the kind of tip of the hat to that old saying. And that way, we're having these conversations and we're approaching, so look out.

Caroline Winter:

How fantastic, I love it. Kirsten, which topics have been the most popular and why?

Kirsten Diprose:

The two themes jumped out at me so far, we're only in our second season now. But the first one is business related. So side hustles, side projects, I think there are a lot of rural women who are really excited by the ease of technology and access to business that we have now. It's really exciting. The other main issue is mental health. And we've done three episodes now that have been very successful that are on mental health. One of them was about juggling the mental load. And recently, we've done one about postnatal depression and then another one, about how we can best help the men in our lives with their mental health given that men and women are different, and we communicate differently. So how do we kind of bridge that gap?

Caroline Winter:

I'd like to go into some detail about the episode on the mental load. I'm sure it's a topic many women can identify with. So can you tell me what is the mental load and why did you want to discuss it?

Kirsten Diprose:

The mental load is, I've got to pick up the kids, pick up the dry cleaning, got to pick up that pie for dinner, I'll drop off the present to my friend, and then I'll take the kids to swimming. Tomorrow, I've got to remember that I've got that work meeting. So, that's the mental load. It's that constant kind of battle that's going on in your mind with all of the things, be them little, be they small. And I think women really notice it when they have kids, because they go from usually working full time, whether that's on farm or off farm, and all you really have to think about is work. And so you go into work and everything's kind of there and you're thinking about work and everything's work related. There's not too much that you have to do outside of life.

Then you have kids, and suddenly, they've got appointments, they've got dance class, or soccer or whatever. There's all sorts of things to do around managing their lives, your life, often your husband's life as well, as well as all of the stuff that you do for your job. And it can be really overwhelming. And it's those small things. It's about, what are we having for dinner tonight? It's just that constant stream of having to think ahead, plan ahead. And it means that you end up in this place of anxiety because you're thinking of the future. And we all know that wellbeing teaches us or mindfulness teaches us that we're happy when we're in the moment, that's when we're focused and centered. If you're living in the past or you're living in the future, you're not going to be happy. And when you've got the mental load, you're constantly being forced to live in the future.

Caroline Winter:

I've heard the mental load described as invisible and you've described it really well there. It's kind of that type of work that's done internally. And because of that, it's hard to recognise. Is that something that resonates with the women that you've discussed it with?

Kirsten Diprose:

Absolutely. We're having these internal conversations with ourselves all the time and no one can see it. And most of the women who I've spoken to, they are absolute rockstar women, and they are achieving so much. I see them doing so many things and we all know those women who we love and we go, "Gosh, they've got it together." And each one I've spoken to them have had a point in their lives where they've gone, "You know what, I'm not okay. I've got too much on my plate, I need to change this, I need some help." They've realised that asking for help is okay, you're allowed to do that. And whether that's from your partner or it's kind of outsourcing jobs. I'm a big one to say, if you can afford a cleaner and that's going to help you, then get one. Don't be hung up about feeling like you have to do everything.

There's only so much time in a day. You need to prioritise what's important to you, what's important to your mental health. And if it's going for a walk, you shouldn't let that drop to the bottom of the list because you've got to clean the house and work and pick up the kids and whatever. There's a certain amount of things that need to get done. So work out who's around who can help you. And ask yourself, does that really need to get done today or what's the level of priority for that?

Personally, I am a big planner. And I plan out my week. Every week, I set aside time and I call it time to deal with my mental load, because you don't want to be thinking about all of those things all of the time. So I put everything in my phone calendar like all of the basic things from picking kids up. Even that's something I do nearly every day, that's in there, right? Because it exists and it's timeout, and I need to know where I am to work meetings, buying a present for the new baby that your friends had, all of those things. And I just have it planned. And I do it once a week. And I try and plan out two weeks ahead.

And obviously, life isn't perfect in that you have two weeks and you know everything that's going to happen. It doesn't work like that. But at least you've got things that are already set in stone that you can plan around. And it really boosts your productivity. And like I'm someone who likes to get stuff done. And this really, really helps me achieve that. And it makes me feel good, because I'm getting it done. And it also takes the weight off my mind. It's literally taking that thing out of my brain and putting it in the diary. I've allocated time for it. So I don't need to think about it, because I'm doing it on Wednesday at ten o'clock. So I don't need to be thinking about it on Monday at 9:00 am while I'm driving to work.

Caroline Winter:

Some great tips there. Kirsten, do you feel like the mental load is exacerbated for women in rural communities like yours?

Kirsten Diprose:

Absolutely. And logistics, as I mentioned earlier, is one of those reasons. Just that so much of our time can be spent driving in a car and you feel like it's lost time. I try and use it to make some phone calls or do something productive like that or I listen to podcasts, which I love to do. But you take time out of your day just to get around and that makes it harder. I think there's still an expectation on women, full stop. But on rural women as well to really be the ones who are providing the food and organising the community or just the social events very much so, it's the women who are the ones that are organising the Red Cross meeting and the hall meeting. And they're the ones who bring the food and organising that.

And it's not to say that the men don't do work, because they do. They're often the ones that are doing the kind of handy work or the CFA volunteers, so it's not like they don't do any work. But there is still sort of that gender role that I find in rural areas that still exists. And as we women become more active in either the farming business or off farm in our own roles and we take on those senior positions, we're still expected to do a lot of those caring roles, the cooking, the cleaning, the presentation of something is still up to us. And it's just, where do we find the time? The kids are still up to us, we're meant to have that sort of mental diary the whole time of where they need to be and when. And I think a lot of men... Like let's be generous to men. And I think maybe they don't realise it because they don't have to.

And in a recent podcast, actually, I spoke to Mary O'Brien who's fantastic. She's from Are You Bogged Mate? Or she founded it. And she gets men and she talks about how men are often in this protector provider mode. And so they're very much focused on the farm on the business. Their number one focus is about being the provider, making sure you're fed and clothed. And that was a lightbulb for me because it made me think "Okay. That's perhaps why they're not immediately thinking about the household and the kids." They're not necessarily cognisant all the time that, I might be at home trying to bath the kids and get dinner on the table and gee, I would really love some help with that. Not saying that they could change.

But the other thing is, we just need to be obvious about it. I think we as women sometimes expect people to know what we're thinking and you can't expect that of anyone and particularly, men. Just be obvious say, "I'm really struggling. I would like, if possible." And farming is so hard because of the unpredictable hours, but you've got to work something out. Just to say, Tuesday and Thursday, can we make it your responsibility to pick the kids up and unpack their lunches and whatever? So that I know I don't have to do that and take that off my plate and free up that time for something else.

And you tell them in a really practical way. Like instead of like we women, we get really caught up with emotions and I am guilty of it with the best of them. But if you come to your partner with a solution and you say, "I'd love to go for a walk." And my husband was like, "Yeah, you do. Yeah, absolutely." So we found time on the calendar that I could go for a walk, that he could be home with the kids so I could just go for a walk for an hour. And if you give practical solutions, this is what I want it for, be it work or something that's supportive of your mental and physical well being, you'll find that your partner, who's your team player, who actually is wanting you to be happy, should be there with you.

Caroline Winter:

I'm curious, though. There is a lot of literature and commentary about the mental load. In your opinion, how is it then that women end up carrying the burden of the mental load?

Kirsten Diprose:

It goes back to history. Obviously, historically, women did all those jobs. They looked after the kids, they organised the kids lives and the household jobs from the cleaning to the cooking and a lot of the volunteer work. And that was because they weren't working, but now they are. So something needs to shift. Now that our society has shifted, those roles don't exactly fit the way that they used to, and yet, they still really persist. And I guess, to borrow on feminist theory really, which talks about the public and the private sphere. And traditionally, the public sphere is work, it's public life, it's the politician making decisions, it's business, it's all of that sort of stuff. And that was men's domain. And women's domain was the private sphere, which was all of the household stuff. And that's what I'm aiming to do in my podcast. It's really dismantle those notions of public and private.

And particularly in farming, it really makes sense, because in farming, the public and the private has always been merged. How often does the business meeting happen around the coffee table in the house? You make big decisions about what crops you're going to grow that year in your house. And instead of just making the tea and coffee, women are sitting at the table as well and also deciding what crops you're going to grow this year. But they're still often making the coffee and the scones as well.

But it's dismantling this idea. And that's why we talk about mental health too, that there's just these two completely separate worlds, because they're not. We've all got kids, we've all got to eat dinner, someone's got to do the job, and all of those jobs are equal. So how we choose to divide it up doesn't matter. To me, there's no divide and there shouldn't be. We've all got to live. And, indeed, that's how I now prioritise my life. And my calendar, there's a mixture of personal and private, happening interchangeably all the time. Every job has value in a farming business, every job has value just in society. If you're adding value to the business by picking the kids up and getting dinner on the table, then you're freeing up time for your partner to be working on the farm or vice versa. If you're the one who's on the tractor that evening, then your partner should be at home bathing the kids and getting dinner on the table. And it's just about who does what? what's easier? What makes sense?

Caroline Winter:

And really what you're saying by all of this is, is there strategies to help lighten the load in everybody's basket. We often talk about mental health through the lens of depression or anxiety. How is the mental load different, though? And what kind of impacts can it have on a person if the mental load gets too much?

Kirsten Diprose:

So I think, it can lead to anxiety or depression. I mentioned before, if you're thinking about the mental load all the time, you're living in the future. So you're thinking about the things that you've got to do tomorrow, next week, this afternoon. If you let those thoughts start to govern you... And look, I suppose talking from experience, I had postnatal depression when my first child was born. So Harry's seven now, but when he was born, I think, there were a lot of risk factors for me. I literally just moved to the farm. And I just found the whole experience overwhelming. I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to get everything done.

I wish I knew that it really wasn't realistic for anyone who's got a newborn to be there like getting dinner on the table, keeping a clean house, looking after the baby, you're not sleeping properly, your hormones are all over the shop. I just thought that I could live like normal, but with a baby for some reason, and it was insane. And I was just setting myself up to fail. And really it started making me think bad things about myself.

Like I thought that because I couldn't do this, it led to some really bad thinking patterns that, I wasn't worthy, I wasn't achieving, I wasn't good at this, all of these things, and it just snowballed. And then when I finally got the help that I needed... Like I get really sad when I think about it now, because to think that I thought so low of myself, it's really heartbreaking. And I know that people feel like that. And what's happening is, your brain is not working properly. Your brain is sick and it's telling you lies. You need to see someone and once you do, that clouds slowly lifts and you become yourself again, and it's wonderful.

Caroline Winter:

That's quite a story. Kirsten, so much of our chat about the mental load has resonated with me and I'm sure it will with other women. Kirsten Diprose, some great advice there. Thank you again for joining me in the AgVic Talk Studio.

Kirsten Diprose:

Thank you so much for having me. I've really really enjoyed it. You can listen to Ducks on the Pond wherever you get your podcasts.

Caroline Winter:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or a rating and share this series with your friends and family. All information included in our episodes is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on-farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, Authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Increasing productivity is at the core of grains research. However, keeping the researchers connected with the agronomists and the farmers is often the key to the success of that research. G'day, I'm Drew Radford, and that's the aim of the Horsham SmartFarm, strategically located in the heart of Victoria's cropping country. PhD student Jasmine Marsh came to the smart farm as part of the agronomist development program. Her talents, though, have led her down a high-end research path, which puts her now at the cutting edge of grains development, all while remaining at the SmartFarm. To find out how, Jasmine joins us for this AgVic Talk podcast. Thanks for your time.

Jasmine Marsh:

Thank you for having me.

Drew Radford:

Jasmine, you are quite away from home. You're originally a Queenslander. So how did you find yourself living in the Wimmera?

Jasmine Marsh:

I was realising that I really wanted to get a job, and I wanted some experience, some real-life experience. So I applied for a graduate research position at Agriculture Victoria. I didn't think I'd get it, but I got it, so that was exciting. So I packed my bags up and moved from Queensland in my little Getz, drove down the 2000 Ks to Horsham.

Drew Radford:

It's quite a journey in a little car like that. And obviously the program led to other things, though, Jasmine, because that was 2017. You're still there.

Jasmine Marsh:

Yes, no. So it was an amazing program, and I'm so lucky to have gotten it. It was a graduate research agronomist position, and it had different placements. Two of my placements were here in Horsham, and another one in Birchip, and it just gave me such a good grounding, and I loved it, and I loved Horsham. I thought it was really great to do day trips around Victoria, and I was in different places I'd never been, and it was all exciting. My managers here had found out I really loved research, and had suggested that I do a PhD, and were happy to help me find projects that I was interested in. So I took them up, and then spent six months working as a casual for the lentil and field pea breeding programs here in Horsham, and I'm doing my PhD with that group as well.

Drew Radford:

So you nearly towards the end of your doctorate. Was agriculture in your blood, was it something you always wanted to pursue?

Jasmine Marsh:

I didn't always want to pursue it. It had always been there in my life. My grandfather owned a dairy property and then later transferred it to a cattle property, in Monto, Queensland, three hours west of Bundaberg, the place I grew up. We'd always spend holidays and weekends running around the property,  having a blast, but it was never something I was looking to get into, but I loved science, and my year nine or 10 science teacher was pushing me towards different careers. And I think once I got into senior, so 11 or 12, tapped me on the shoulder and he is like, "I really think agricultural science would suit you very well, and you really should strongly consider it."

Jasmine Marsh:

He brought in a couple of scientists to talk to our classes, and he asked me to stay behind so I could chat with them. And I was really interested in the work they were doing. So I made sure I did all the subjects I needed to, to get into a bachelor of agricultural science and loved my university degree, had a blast. And yeah, that was it, really.

Drew Radford:

That's a fabulous story of a key mentor in your education at an early phase suggesting a path that's worked out well for you, but there's obviously something about agriculture beyond that original taste, I suppose, you got from your grandfather's farm and also from your science teacher, that appeals to you. So what is it about agriculture that has continued that appeal for you?

Jasmine Marsh:

I like how diverse it is. There's so many different aspects. You could go an agronomist, you got your pathology, your chemistry, genetics, so many different areas, you can kind of go across into, or you can just stay in the one area. And I liked how diverse it was. And also I liked the fact that agriculture is important in all countries, and that, if I wanted to, I had the opportunity to collaborate internationally or go overseas, which is very exciting when I was looking for jobs, and I know agriculture's such an important industry, and unlike other science, there's not always the jobs. Or they're important and then they become not important. So the funding's not there, but I think agriculture's such an important part of the economy and is going to increasingly become more important, with food security and an increasing population that I knew there'd be jobs there and that I could contribute to something positive, which I thought was lovely.

Drew Radford:

Well, it's an important thing to contribute to, because eating's pretty important to all of us, to say the least, when you drill it down to its most basic. Why is the Horsham Agriculture Victoria site a location that attracts scientists and researchers?

Jasmine Marsh:

I think it's a great site. The people here are friendly, and there's lots of different areas. We've got your agronomists, your soil scientists. We've got grains chemistry people. We've got pathologists. It's a really well funded site as well. We're getting six new glass houses put in and we've got a Grains Gene Bank here, which is incredible. We've got a phenology glass house set up. So it's well funded and it's got world-class scientists and such a friendly collaborative environment.

Jasmine Marsh:

And we work on broadacre grains. And we're in a broadacre cropping area, which I think is important. So you might be working in canola, and you drive five minutes down the road and you just see fields of canola. And there's, you're in a community where there's farmers who also grow these crops that you spend three or four years working on, so it's great. I love that fact, that you can talk to farmers about some of the crops you're working on, and they're as equally passionate as you are, even though you're coming from it from different angles.

Drew Radford:

It certainly sounds like you get to walk the talk for want of a better description, Jasmine. What's your typical day involve?

Jasmine Marsh:

I suppose my typical day, because I'm getting towards end of my PhD, is now changed, from doing experiments to now writing up and analysing the data and finishing off now. So my typical day is analysing the data that needs to be analysed and writing up my chapters or my experiments into chapters, so I can qualify as a PhD student and then move on in my career. So that's currently where I'm at.

Drew Radford:

Jasmine, is there anything about working in the industry that's surprised you, you didn't expect?

Jasmine Marsh:

I like about the industry how friendly everyone is and how I didn't expect people with different backgrounds, all working in the same industry. We have people with chemistry or computer science backgrounds, but we're all working in agricultural science, and we're all hoping to work on these grains and to give farmers better outcomes or increase yield. So it's just amazing how people from different backgrounds, different career backgrounds, and even different countries, all coming together to work on something, I think is really lovely.

Drew Radford:

Jasmine, your journey kind of started back in year nine, by the sounds of it. What would you say to other young people who are interested in a career in agriculture, but don't know how to get started?

Jasmine Marsh:

I suppose it depends. If they're in high school, I would suggest they talk to their school and try and arrange some work experience. A lot of even commercial and research places usually enjoy having work experience kids love sharing what they do to people interested. And even here in Agriculture Victoria in Horsham, we have work experience kids from high schools come here and spend a week here, going with the different scientists. So that's always a great start to see if you're actually interested in it.

Jasmine Marsh:

If you are 18 and over, you can try and get some casual work. Especially in summer, we have harvest, so a lot of commercial seed companies and even here in Agriculture Victorian in Horsham, we have casual work, so you can work for a few months. You get paid, and if you really enjoy the work, you can start making connections in the industry and see if you want to either take a technical position, which you don't always need a degree for, or if you want to go in the science route, I think it's gives you a taste of it before you dive right in. Or even ringing up and chatting to people in the industry. Most people are more than happy to have a chat and discuss what they do and how they got to there.

Drew Radford:

That was Jasmine Marsh. Whilst her path involved moving from Queensland to Victoria, Roy Daykin, who's an agronomist with Elders has moved right around the world to pursue his agricultural career. For him, the SmartFarm has proved to be a crucial source of information, helping him be across local farming practices. To find out how, Roy joins us in the AgVic Talk studio. Thanks for your time.

Roy Daykin:

No trouble at all, Drew. It's a pleasure talking to you.

Drew Radford:

Roy, you're an agronomist now, but you sort of came to it via circuitous route. You didn't grow up with dirt under your nails, I understand.

Roy Daykin:

Not really, other than grandparents who were tea and coffee farmers in East Africa. And since then always had a desire to have a career in the outdoors, in some shape or form.

Drew Radford:

So you ended up going and studying agronomy.

Roy Daykin:

Yes. I studied crop production and animal production, both, at a university in UK, and that was intermingled with agri-business to assist me to get a job within the agricultural supply chain, other than going straight back into farming, as I did not have a farm to go back to.

Drew Radford:

Roy, that's quite a circuitous route, starting off in East Africa, studying agriculture in the UK, to being an agronomist in central Victoria. How'd you end up in central Victoria?

Roy Daykin:

That's a long story, which I'll cut short. A job offer was presented to me by one of my kind colleagues at Elders Bendigo, while I was on holiday in Bendigo in Victoria. I decided to take the hit and prevent the middle-aged midlife crisis from biting and take the plunge and come across to, to Wycheproof, and take up the job.

Drew Radford:

Roy, was that quite a transition, in terms of the style of agriculture you were dealing with, surely?

Roy Daykin:

Very, very different agriculture. I was obviously used high rainfall agriculture in, in the highlands of East Africa, along with high rainfall and temperate agriculture in UK. So coming to north-central Victoria, which some would argue is very marginal country. The farming techniques and district practices were very alien to me.

Drew Radford:

Obviously they're no longer alien too you, because you've been working in that role for about nine years now. So what sector of agriculture you focused on, really, now?

Roy Daykin:

Predominantly broadacre dry land agronomy, although we do have some irrigation clients to the east of us here in Wycheproof, but predominantly dry land agronomy, cereals and pulses. There is some maize striped corn on the irrigation country to the east of our location.

Drew Radford:

So, Roy, as a agronomist you’re was trying to keep up to date with the latest information and techniques. What's your experience been with the Horsham site and its researchers?

Roy Daykin:

From the very beginning, I developed a relationship with the researchers there at Horsham. And I actually partook in many courses that they provided, some of which were free, others which cost only a tiny little bit of money. And I found them to be very, very useful given the fact that the researchers were very accessible, were prepared to have a chat to you after the courses had taken place, and just found them to be an invaluable source of information, assisted with learning and learning district practice, along with all the key diseases and nutritional issues that we might encounter. They were a fantastic source of information for me.

Drew Radford:

And I imagine from that you were able to go out and put that into practice pretty quickly.

Roy Daykin:

Absolutely. The way they communicated the information to me, helped me with transferring the messages and the knowledge to our Elders, Wycheproof clients.

Drew Radford:

Is that kind of your role as well, Roy, in terms of, for want of a better description, decoding some of the scientific language and putting it in terms that your clients can understand and apply?

Roy Daykin:

Most certainly is the case. I, along with help from them and my ability to sort of distill the information down and extend those messages to the clients, has helped me to help the clients achieve the outcomes that they require. And that's thanks to the staff at the Horsham site for helping me with distilling down the key information.

Drew Radford:

The Horsham Agriculture Victoria Smart Farm, it's a really interesting facility. Why do you think it's so important to broadacre cropping in the region?

Roy Daykin:

It's an important facility, A, because it's in a good location in Horsham. It's relatively easy for a wide range of people to get to, to attend classroom type of training, along with the fact that they have a good range of trial sites in their vicinity and beyond. They have great meeting facilities, training facilities, laboratories there, along with the fact that the researchers extend their knowledge and findings directly to us agronomists and to farmers who might attend some of these courses with us. So all in all they deliver the complete package.

Drew Radford:

That sounds the perfect mix for an agronomist such as yourself. So Roy, what would you say to people who are listening to this who are interested in a career in agriculture, but don't know where to get started?

Roy Daykin:

Just to do the right thing, punctual, polite and keenness to learn, try and go the extra mile for whoever you are working for at the time, alongside making sure you try and get yourself on a decent course, whether it's animal production, crop production.

Roy Daykin:

And from the other side, if they're aiming to go back to the family farm, along with the practical side of farming, they need how to manage debt in order to generate equity and wealth within your own farm or your family business, understand how to deal with debt both strategically and on a day-to-day operational situation. So you can be in a position to buy your inputs in a timely fashion and alongside that, just have some idea of marketing so you can sell your produce once you've made it.

Roy Daykin:

So I suppose that's a bit of a long winded way of giving you some very generic advice, depending on which way you're aiming to go in your farming career.

Drew Radford:

Roy, that was very considered advice. Thank you very much for taking the time to join us for this AgVic Talk podcast. All the best for your career and hopefully our paths cross again soon.

Roy Daykin:

Thank you very much, Drew. I enjoyed speaking to you, and all the best to you as well.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family. All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before any changes on farm. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria authorized by the Victorian government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Matt Wilson:

A tired man walks with his head down and his shoulders drooped, and often that's how a man with depression walks. You've got no reason to stand tall because every step you take, it feels like something's beating you down.

Drew Radford:

Matt Wilson is a dairy farmer from Gippsland, and he's developed this view from his own experience of battling depression over the years. He's worked hard to put the black dog behind him and now willingly shares his insights with other farmers.

Drew Radford:

G'day, I'm Drew Radford, and Matt's family have been working the land for generations. Initially, though, he chose not to. However, he believes the experience he's had in another industry has helped him bring a healthier work-life balance when he returned to farming. To find out how, how he joins us for this AgVic Talk podcast. Matt, thanks for your time.

Matt Wilson:

Thanks, for having me.

Drew Radford:

Matt, you started in the dairy game at a young age. How young?

Matt Wilson:

I was eight when I first started milking cows. We moved out from the, well sort of suburbs, Keysborough wasn't quite full-on suburb then. We moved to Lang Lang when I was eight. And I went and milked some of the neighbours cows and fell in love with it.

Drew Radford:

Not too many eight-year-olds are out milking cows. It's a fairly young start.

Matt Wilson:

I've got one at the moment here, actually. He doesn't enjoy it like I did.

Drew Radford:

Yeah, but that's your son I would imagine isn't it?

Matt Wilson:

Yeah, that's right.

Drew Radford:

Okay. So what was your motivation?

Matt Wilson:

Oh, look, the neighbor said he milked cows. I said, "Can I come and see?" And he said, "Yeah, no worries." And I went and saw it done and I said, "Oh, this is amazing." And I just kept going back. And I said to my mum, "I want to do this when I grow up." And she said, "Yeah, well, we'll see what happens."

Drew Radford:

But you didn't end up doing that.

Matt Wilson:

No. No. When it came time to decide what I was going to do in year 12, I'd actually did home eco at school and really decided that I liked cooking as well. And a mate said he was going to be a chef when he left school. And I thought, geez, that wouldn't be a bad job. So I had the choice of either a chef, a farmer or a musician. I played drums and the electronic organ and mum did her best to talk me out of being a farmer, which in the end she succeeded. The chef side of things had more of an edge. That was a bit stronger in the want to do that. So I ended up going and doing that.

Drew Radford:

I understand you traveled around the world doing that, but farming pulled you back eventually. What happened?

Matt Wilson:

I started my apprenticeship at Phillip Island and then it's been a fair whack of time on the Peninsula. And over there I met my now wife who was on a working holiday visa from the UK. So through all that in a development of our relationship, I decided that I wanted to marry her. I asked her and then thought I better go and see what her country was like and what life was like over there. And then we work out where we were going to live. So I went over there and I started cooking over there as well.

Drew Radford:

But eventually you came back to Australia, but you didn't come back to continue on career as a chef though. What changed?

Matt Wilson:

Yeah, I did for a little while, while I was in the UK, I stopped cooking. I'd I got sick of being in the kitchen. We were working six weeks without a day off and in the kitchen environment, that is very, very taxing. I gave up the cooking over there. And went and worked on an organic dairy farm on the northeast coast of England. That then got offered a job back in Australia running the kitchen up at Mount Hotham in a place called the Last Run Bar. So I came back over and did that for the ski season. And we had a mortgage by then. We'd bought a house in Rhyll at Phillip Island. And my wife was very, very scared that we were going to not make enough money to pay the mortgage. So she found a job for me as head chef at the Westernport Hotel in San Remo and I went and applied for the job and got it. So I worked that for another 12 months and then I'd just I'd had enough. Honestly, I'd enough for being in the kitchen. I saw Caroline for two days over that summer of her six weeks school holidays. And I said, "That's it, I'm done. I'm out." And I got out.

Drew Radford:

Getting out's one thing, Matt, but then getting into something else is an entirely different scenario. And it was farming that drew you back though.

Matt Wilson:

Yes. Yeah. I always loved being on the farm and I, or we were looking at the idea of having children and we were trying to have children. And I always said, I would love to bring my children up on a farm because I think after growing up on a farm, I'm not sure there's any better way for a kid to grow up. For what you learn in life skills growing up on a farm, I wanted to give my children that opportunity. So started looking at trying to get a farm and ways we could. And that's when share farming eventually popped up.

Drew Radford:

So Matt, you were able to get in, but you got via share farming and that worked well I understand for a number of years, and now you're on a lease property in Gippsland. Working on a farm, very idealistic the way you describe it for your kids, but it comes with its own challenges, doesn't it?

Matt Wilson:

Yeah, definitely. We've never been in a position that we're financially flushed. Because of the way we got into it, we were behind the eight ball financially from the start. And we had to borrow half a million dollars to buy cows, plus more money to buy machinery. And then we got this new thing that we hadn't had before called an overdraft as well. So with all of that, there comes the pressure of trying to make sure you meet all those payments and trying to manage the money. But then the other side of that is not having enough money to then employ someone to take the pressure off you. We only ever had casual employees that just milked and then when we took holidays and that was it.

Drew Radford:

So in some regards, you got out of the pressure cooker of the kitchens. It sounds to me like you've took on a whole lot more stress in another area as well. How did that impact on you?

Matt Wilson:

It's a funny answer because I didn't seem or feel like I was going to work every day, because finally I had my farming dream. For the first, probably two years, that's how it felt. But in the background brewing was the finances, the pressure there. My wife was actually paying the bills and doing all that side of stuff. And then we were getting to a point of getting behind each month a little bit more and a little bit more. And eventually I took the pressure off her paying the bills and I put the pressure on myself, one, to take responsibility for what the farm was doing, but two to take that pressure off her because it was becoming a fairly big one, but obviously I just took the pressure from one spot and put it to another, but always believed that I could handle the pressure of that.

Drew Radford:

And how did you go handling the pressure of it?

Matt Wilson:

Most of the time, okay, but what I didn't really know was there was an underlying bout of depression that was building up underneath, which I then became diagnosed with a few years later. But as it turns out that had been going on for a long time, right back when I was in the kitchen. It's just that it manifested itself into something much, much bigger by then.

Matt Wilson:

It got to the point of each morning, I just hit snooze one more time and another time, another time and was finding it increasingly difficult to get out of bed and go milk the cows and then come back inside and have my breakfast and then literally just falling asleep in the chair. So I got this tiredness that came over me, but this constant banging in my head, you need to be out doing work, get up, come on, let's go, come on, get out there. You need to be doing this work. You need to be doing it. And to the point where I went to the doctors and started to find out what was actually going on.

Drew Radford:

It's a good thing that you actually decided to deal with it and go and speak to a doctor. A lot of blokes aren't particularly good at that. What was the strategy you've managed to put in place?

Matt Wilson:

They had a series of steps because I went to the doctor for my tiredness basically. So initially they did blood tests, which all came back clear. There was no problems there. So then they tested me for sleep apnea, which they discovered I had. So it masked the depression for a little while longer, and then this tiredness started to kick back in after a few months. And we went back to the doctor. My wife had been starting niggle at me a little bit and say, "I think you need to go and have a chat to someone about this." So I went to the doctor and he referred me to a psychologist, and through all of that they worked out that I was suffering from mild depression.

Drew Radford:

Was that a relief to get to that point, to actually say, this is what's causing these ongoing maladies.

Matt Wilson:

It was to start with. And then they gave me some medication, which they said would take six weeks before it kicked in. So that helped me for a period of time. But at the same time, I come from a family that is quite strong-willed strong-minded family, who does a lot for the community. So in that, it comes back to that bit of I'm stronger than this and this is a weakness I can crack on. So with that, I was sitting there in my mind saying I don't need tablets to make me feel better. So I was trying my best to get off those as quickly as I could and which I did. I got off them within six months, but that wasn't the good thing because the whole thing just manifested again.

Drew Radford:

So have you found a new path to try and balance things out now then?

Matt Wilson:

So I got off the medication for about four or five months and my mother-in-law came over from the UK. We get on really well, but just the whole thing of people being around. The farm owners had actually gone away. And I got to a point, and I'd lost a few calves in a few days and I had a couple of them lying out the front of the calf shed. And I said, "Come on, this is not you. This is not how you work." So I started on the medication again. And I did so for about 12, 18 months I had medication, but then side effects started kick in from the medication. My memory loss was becoming quite noticeable, little twitches, lots of bits and pieces. Balance was actually affected. So I started doing some research into it and found all these side effects and went, "Oh, I've got that one. I got that one. I got that one. I got that one." And it was a good half a dozen or more side effects that I was actually feeling from it. And then through more research found that people would just go back to the doctors and the doctors that either give them a different type of antidepressant or up their medication on the drug that they're on.

Matt Wilson:

And I said, "No, that's not for me. There's got to be a better way than this.

Drew Radford:

And have you changed your lifestyle as well in terms of exercise or sleeping activity?

Matt Wilson:

Up until about a month ago, not really, apart from when we moved to this farm. Moving to this farm, just changed my perspective of what was going on in my mind. Because of the share farm, I actually was running two businesses as such. So I was running my business and then I was having to make the right decisions for the farm owner's business. And that puts double the pressure on you because you are expected to make the decisions. Even though you sit and you talk about what decisions you're going to make, you are the one that makes the final decision. So for me, that was a lot bigger burden than I ever anticipated it being. So once we moved to this lease farm, I actually stopped myself one day and said, "You're done now, mate. There's no one looking over your shoulder anymore. Stop with this stuff. Be happy. You've finally got what you wanted." And that changed my mindset.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like a number of steps have led to where you are now. And I imagine you're probably pretty cautious about whether that can go backwards, but you're talking very openly about this, which is fantastic, because not a lot of blokes do. Why is it so important for you to?

Matt Wilson:

Well, we hear so much about people taking their lives and I must admit that I never, ever, ever have had any of those sorts of thoughts or ever got to that stage. And I say to people, "The depression I suffered was not a life-ending depression. What I needed to find out was what the hell was making me so tired, because I'm...Well, according, my wife says I've got ADHD. I can't sit still. While we're sitting, talking on the phone, I'm twitching at my nose and my hands are moving the whole time. I can't sit still, I've got to do things. And I was getting to the point in life and I wasn't doing those things. I had no want to do those things, no motivation. And when you're an active person, that's not how you want to feel. So I openly talk about it because I'm lucky. STOP.

So if sharing my story openly and truthfully makes someone else sit up and say, "Hey, you know what, I'm suffering and feeling those same symptoms. I just thought I was tired because I worked too hard. Actually there might be more to this." So if that helps someone, one person, five people, 10 people, I don't care how many it helps as long as it helps someone.

Drew Radford:

That's an amazing and honest perspective and really helpful perspective to have, because sadly working in rural regional Australia, the incidences are high in terms of mental health.

Matt Wilson:

Very much so. There's something I've really learned over more probably the last couple of years. And COVID's probably highlighted it. It's always been there, but it's definitely highlighted, is watching friends that farm and talking to them about things. We make sure we have a lifestyle. So for me, I came from an industry outside of farming. I wasn't in farming from a teenager and worked for my dad and took on the family farm or got involved in it and did it as my career from day dot. So I bring a different perspective into it. I used to have two days off a week. I understand about having a day off and how that revitalises your body, but that's not something that a normal, typical born and bred farmer has ever experienced or understands. So I see my friends, my mates, my colleagues working seven days a week with this getting up at 4:30 or 5:00 in the morning and still be working at 7:00 at night because the work has to be done. And that's a huge, huge downfall of what this industry is about.

Drew Radford:

That's a very sobering analysis, Matt. For those listening, what are some really simple things you think they can do to help someone who might be in need of support?

Matt Wilson:

The hardest part of it is getting someone to actually admit that they need some help. Most people won't ask or look for that help until absolute breaking point. But sitting and listening to people, often there are little signs just with the words they say, with the things they say. You can hear it, you can see it in their body language. A tired man walks with his head down and his shoulders drooped. And often that's how a man with depression walks. You've got no reason to stand tall because every step you take, it feels like something's beating you down. So if you see your friend, your husband, your brother, your mother walking along like that, put your arm around him, ask him if they're all right.

Drew Radford:

It's a really simple piece of advice, Matt, it really cuts through. For anyone who feels that they might need some support, have you got any suggestions on how they might take the first step?

Matt Wilson:

Well, mine was going to the doctor. Well, really, actually that was the second step. Talking to my wife about it was the first step for me. Funnily enough, she turned around, she looked and she said, "We all know you've got depression. My family has watched you over the years." And they're all in medical professions and in caring type jobs in the UK. So they deal with this sort of stuff. My father-in-law worked at a place for the deaf, blind, autistic children, so had had a lot of experience with this. Whereas my family, when I told my Nan, her first reaction was, she went, "Ha, you? Depressed? Ha what a joke." So there was two completely different views there.

Matt Wilson:

So the first step of it is actually realising that something's not right in yourself and talking to someone you know you can talk to and that might be going and talking to your doctor. And these days that's probably a stranger because we don't tend to have the same doctor every time. But if it is, sometimes it's easier to sit there and tell someone else rather than to tell your wife or your family that, "Hey, something's not right here."

Drew Radford:

Re-Record question: I understand that you work with Gippsland Jersey and they have a real focus on farmer mental health, can you tell us more about what they do?

Matt Wilson:

Yeah, well, so we're a supplier of them, but initially when we got on board with them, or I got on board with them, was actually through the very first calendar that they put out. Sally Jones asked me if I would like to be part of it. And that was a good friend of mine, dropped me in it and said, "Hey, why don't you talk to Mattie?" So I ended up in that first calendar and I met some people. When I was sitting there amongst those people, I sort of thought to myself, gee, I'm here with these people, but wow, their stories just cut me like a knife. But this is one of the things that Gippsland Jersey is getting behind is trying to get better welfare for farmers so we get paid a better price. I've got friends that are milking nearly 2,000 cows and my per litre milk price is better than this. Traditionally, to get a better milk price, you had to milk more cows. So that's their first step in making us feel like we are getting paid for what we are doing.

Matt Wilson:

Secondly is putting a lot of time, money and energy into supporting farmers. And that can be as simple as them putting a barbecue on or putting this information out that they're putting through a calendar, which in turn raises money to help people do this stuff. And through the journey I've met a lot of people that are actually involved in trying to help farmers get help for themselves when they're not feeling right.

Drew Radford:

Matt, you've been very frank with sharing your experience. Is there one overall insight that you'd like to leave listeners with?

Matt Wilson:

Can I just say one thing in closing, and this is to all the farmers out there and it doesn't matter if they're a dairy farmer or not. You know, you're not too hard to sit down and talk to someone about the way you feel. Sit down and have that conversation, go and have a chat to someone and say, "Hey, I just don't feel quite right. Is there anything I can do to make myself feel better? Or could you help me to take the steps to feel better?"

Matt Wilson:

I met a farmer at Farm World who has been through some pretty tough times in East Gippsland. And we were stood talking to a gentleman. I can't think of the company he works for or anything, but it was there trying to help farmers with mental health. And this farmer turned around and he said to the fellow, "Look, no offense, but you walk in there with your background in that suit, those farmers down there aren't going to give you 30 seconds of their time, let alone sit there and listen to what you have to say." And to me that just shows this maybe solidarity in the mindset of farmers, but also that closed door. We don't talk about this type stuff that there is still going on. In the further out communities, maybe not so much where we farm closer to the city, but certainly these places that are along the way from the city, with the real traditional father-to-son farming scenarios, that attitude really lies through. And they're the people that we need to try and help get through this and for them to be opened up and really realise there's another way,

Drew Radford:

Matt Wilson, you're doing a remarkable job of reaching out to other farmers and showing them there is another way. Thank you so much for your time and candidness with sharing your story for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Matt Wilson:

No worries at all. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

If this podcast has brought up any difficult emotions for you, please reach out to someone you can talk to. You can also contact the Beyond Blue Support Service on 1-300-224636, or at beyondblue.org.au, Men's Line Australia on 1-300-789978 or at mensline.org.au, or Lifeline on 1-31114 or at lifeline.org.au.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback.

So please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family. All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorized by the Victorian Government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Having good safety systems in place can actually make you more money. G'day. I'm Drew Radford, and those words belong to farmer and seed business owner, Ashley Fraser, a passionate advocate of doing things the right way so that all his team go home safely to their families, at the end of the day. To delve into this deeper, Ashley joins us for this AgVic Talk podcast. Thanks for your time.

Ashley Fraser:

No worries. Thanks, Drew.

Drew Radford:

Ashley, you wear a few different hats across a couple of different entities. Can you just map out what they are?

Ashley Fraser:

So we have a seed company as well as a farming operation, and I, along with my wife, Pam, manage the seed company operation here at Rutherglen, called Baker Seeds.

Drew Radford:

From my reading though, Ashley, that's a little bit of an understatement because the farming side of it's quite big, and so is the seed business side quite large as well. So how many people are employed in these enterprises?

Ashley Fraser:

So we've got around 20 plus or minus depending on the time of year in the seed business, and then around five on the farm, depending on the seasonal timing as well.

Drew Radford:

And is the farm really focused on producing seed for the seed business?

Ashley Fraser:

It is. We do also produce a fair amount of just commercial grain, that'll just go into the feed or milling sectors. We crop probably 30 per cent wheat, 30 per cent canola and 40 per cent other things such as triticale, lupins, oats, beans and then a bit of pasture as well for our livestock operation.

Drew Radford:

Now you're on about two and a half thousand hectares, I understand, and you're in pretty prime country. Where abouts are you?

Ashley Fraser:

The main part of the farming operation sits between Springhurst and Rutherglen in the north-east Victoria.

Drew Radford:

So pretty reliable weather for that kind of production, I'd imagine.

Ashley Fraser:

Yeah, it is. And I guess probably our worst years are the wet years, where we can get a bit too wet. But yeah, it's a really nice part of the world to farm in, to be honest.

Drew Radford:

That also sounds like a pretty good problem to have, compared to a lot of farms in dryer areas. Now, Ashley, we're here to talk largely about safety, and you've done a lot of work in this space. Now, how does safety compare or differ between the farm and the seed operation?

Ashley Fraser:

Oh, the approach to safety is pretty much the same. There's a few facets to safety as such. First and foremost, you've got to get a good culture around safety and that people feel comfortable raising any issues. And that comes about through the main thing, which is communication. And then I guess from a business point of view, there's the documentation side of it, which is essentially being able to prove that you do what you say you're doing.

Drew Radford:

Now, you mentioned there, a good culture, and being a leader is not something most people always think they're going to find themselves doing. But how important has that been for you to find a leadership style and build those skills when it comes to maintaining safety within the business and developing that culture?

Ashley Fraser:

Yeah, I guess a lot of it, you've got to lead by example. I've been in this business for nearly 25 years, so I've personally done every job there is to do in the place, and I've got a fair idea of exactly the hurdles that you'll need to overcome with every part of the job, so I guess for me, it's been fairly easy because it's just simply leading by example, in that regard.

Drew Radford:

You mentioned communication. Is that formal or is it written or is it something that occurs daily?

Ashley Fraser:

It's a bit of both. You still need to have those formal conversations where, at a meeting, righto, is there any safety issues? Are there any concerns that people have? But I find not too much tends to come out of those meetings. There'll be the odd thing, but it's more the one-on-one chats or the observations that you'll have around the place. And I guess you go and have that one-on-one chat with the guys and go, "How are you finding this?" Generally, if a job's hard to do, it can be because there's a safety component to it. And then we just have that discussion and we see if we can work a way of manufacturing something to make that job easier, which will then also make it safer.

Drew Radford:

The large part of what you're describing there is actually being heard and acting on what you're hearing.

Ashley Fraser:

Oh, absolutely. First and foremost, to have a good culture, you've got to have a workplace where people feel engaged and they're happy to share their opinion, and those opinions are respected. I mean, we've always maintained that we're a family business, and when you come to work for us, you become part of our family and you're treated accordingly.

Drew Radford:

That's a fantastic perspective. Everyone wants to go home the same way they got to work. That's a fair enough thing for everybody to hope for. I understand you had a visit from one of the Victorian Government funded Making our Farms Safer advisors. Why did you ask someone to come out and help you improve safety, and give your farm the once over?

Ashley Fraser:

We had, I guess, put in some new systems and some new ways of doing things. We actually implemented the Safe Ag Systems app. Everyone in the workforce carries a phone with them these days, and I guess it was a way of us trying to actually better communicate what's going on around the place and having another avenue for them to actually convey any maintenance issues. Which, a maintenance issue's quite often a safety issue and really get on top of those things. So with those new systems, we'd already done a couple of reviews on those systems. We were pretty happy with where we were tracking. It never hurts to get a second opinion and someone go over and that hasn't been to the business before and say, "Righto. Well, I can see you've got a couple of holes here." Or there or whatever it might be. And whether that be in documentation, whether it's in systems, whether it was in just simply how we were managing our communication or whatever.

Ashley Fraser:

For me, it's not something you can just rest your laurels on and go, I think we're right. Farming and the agricultural sector, unfortunately, we've got a really poor safety record and it's something that, unless we all take it a bit seriously, it's not something we're going to improve on, and we really need to improve on it.

Drew Radford:

Did that also require a consultation with your staff afterwards? Right, this is where we've got to and this is what we're going to do.

Ashley Fraser:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Once they'd come out, and gone through everything, found a couple of areas for improvement for us, we were able to then go out and go, "Actually guys, we're doing really, really well in all these parts of our program. We've ticked all these boxes. We're doing well, and so we're on the right track. But we still need to tighten up on this. We need to get people to sign off on another policy, just to be a bit clearer on where we're going." I mean, all of our staff are really receptive to all that now because they've come along on that journey as well.

Drew Radford:

From what you're describing though, is not everything you've put in place requires a lot of money. People often fear that safety requires cash, but I'm not getting that impression across the board from you.

Ashley Fraser:

No, if anything, having good safety around the place, it can actually make you more money because generally you're doing things more productively and people actually enjoy, or tend to want to do those jobs now. Because if they dislike a job it's quite often because it's hard or it's got an element to it that they don't really like. If you can make it a happy workplace, then all of a sudden your productivity goes up.

Drew Radford:

In terms of an ongoing process, you say you talk to your staff a lot, but are there formal procedures in place such as inductions and feedback mechanisms when things go wrong?

Ashley Fraser:

Oh, absolutely. With the app we're running now, if anyone, even so much as scrapes a knee, they can log that as an incident or a near miss. There's formal procedures there that they can log those incidents or near misses. And as soon as a near miss is logged, I get alerted to that, and I can go straight out and have a conversation, and get an understanding around what's happened, how it's happened and how can we stop that from happening in the future. But that only happens after they've completed all of their inductions. They understand all of our safe work practices. They understand our good manufacturing processes. There's a whole raft of policies and procedures that sit behind that, that they need to be aware of, and have signed off on, before they've even set foot on the work site.

Drew Radford:

That's got to be a dramatic shift in thinking for an old guard of farming, people who just went, "Well, there's the tractor. Away you go." Has that been difficult to change that mindset with some people who have come from more traditional farming backgrounds?

Ashley Fraser:

Yeah, you're right. And with my role as a VFF Grains President, you hear it quite often. "Ah, it just all seems too hard." Or, "I just can't be bothered with all that side of it." But I tell you what's hard, and I reckon the hardest thing in the world would be telling a workman's family that he's just had a tragic accident and he won't be coming home. I think, in reality, that's going to be a way lot harder than implementing a few safety procedures.

Drew Radford:

That is really what it comes down to when you put it in that context. I understand that Victorian farms make up 14 per cent of workplace fatalities, despite employing only two per cent of working Victorians - that's a really sobering reality check isn’t it?

Ashley Fraser:

That's not a badge of honor that anyone wants to wear. And so, yeah, We've got to get serious about it as an industry. And for those people out there that say, "It's a bit hard." Or. "I don't know how to do it." Most people just don't know where to start, and there's plenty of places to start out there. And I applaud the VFF and the Making our Farms Safer program, because that is a really non-confrontational way of getting safety brought in and formalised on your farm. It's a lot easier to make that phone call than wait for WorkSafe to come through the gate and actually order you to do it.

Drew Radford:

Ashley, a lot of this is also a legal requirement now. I imagine also it's been driven to some extent by the insurance industry in terms of, you're going to get hit with higher premiums, unless you can prove that you actually have these systems in place.

Ashley Fraser:

Yeah, absolutely. It is a legal requirement, and the first thing WorkSafe, when they come in through the gate and you've had an incident, they'll openly say to you, "I hear what you're saying, but where's the documentation that proves what you've done." And that's where a lot of farmers will look at each other and go, "We don't have it." And well, none of what you said actually happened then, and that's where farmers can become very vulnerable for legal action. And when you talk about insurance, it's interesting you say that, because it was actually our insurance agent that put us onto the Safe Ag Systems program. And we've actually developed that now where we've actually got all of our quality assurance side of things, all runs through the Safe Ag Systems program. So some of these programs, they can be as little as you want, or they can be as big as you want. And that's entirely up to you and how far you want to take it.

Drew Radford:

Ashley, what are some resources that people listening to this can go to, to find out more about where they should start and what they're required to do and how to implement it?

Ashley Fraser:

Yeah, so there's a whole farm safety team associated with the VFF. Just ringing the office number of the VFF down at Farrer House in Melbourne, they will get you sorted there. Or there's the Making our Farms Safer website and you'll be able to get all that information on that.

Drew Radford:

Ashley Fraser, managing director with Baker Seed Company, and also current VFF Grains Group President, thank you for taking the time and sharing with us what you've learned about farm safety, and how important it is for your production process. Indeed, how much it actually reduces cost. Thanks for taking the time and joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Ashley Fraser:

You're very welcome. Thanks, Drew.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and follow us, wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating, and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant, before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Fire, flood and drought. It's a lot for a community to go through in a decade. Unfortunately though, it's pretty much the story of those living in the Dargo region. How though do you go about supporting that community and helping them recover? G'day, I'm Drew Radford and after so much trauma, individuals can start to cut off and isolate. However, a new program being delivered in East Gippsland by bush nursing is helping overcome that. To find out more, I'm joined for this AgVic Talk podcast by bush nurse and midwife, Megan Lee. Megan, thanks for your time.

Megan Lee:

Thank you for having me.

Drew Radford:

Megan, part of your title is bush nurse. What is it and what attracted you to it?

Megan Lee:

So, a bush nurse is somebody who takes up a nursing position in a remote community. There's a number of bush nursing centres located around Victoria. In the east here, we have six bush nursing centres, and I currently work out of Dargo. You would call us bush nurses because we are essentially located away from the main townships and things like that. We are essentially located in the bush.

Drew Radford:

Megan, I understand you're back now practicing pretty much in the region that you grew up in.

Megan Lee:

I didn't grow up in Dargo itself. I grew up in the Maffra area, which is just over an hour away from Dargo. So, I've never really moved far from the Gippsland area in my nursing and midwifery career.

Drew Radford:

I imagine that could be quite an advantage, having that level of understanding about your local community.

Megan Lee:

Yeah, I think it does have a good advantage. Having grown up in a rural area, you tend to understand that everybody knows everybody. I suppose there's probably very much a need for really upholding confidentiality because you literally walk down the street and you walk past people and say hello to many of the people that you also treat on a daily basis as well. So, I think it's important to have that background and to know that in rural communities, word travels pretty fast.

Drew Radford:

I'd imagine that confidentiality is particularly important because you're in a region that's been through some tough times in terms of floods and fires. So, the support you offer I'd imagine is more important than ever.

Megan Lee:

Absolutely. Yeah, we've been through quite a number of natural disasters here. We've had everything from bushfires to floods, to drought, to earthquakes even. Each one of these, particularly in a rural community, has the ability to impact people both financially, emotionally. Yeah, they're natural disasters that perhaps in the city won't affect you as much as what they would if you were living in a rural area.

Drew Radford:

How then do you go about supporting the community during these times?

Megan Lee:

So, we just make ourselves available for the community to drop into. Anyone can come in and have a general chat with us. We are always interested in people's wellbeing and how they're traveling. Sometimes we take the initiative and we'll contact them just to see how they're going and how they're keeping up with both life, working, and also whether they're engaging with others in the community and socialising. We try to have community events regularly so that people have that opportunity to sit down with others and just chat. Our community lunches are a really popular thing. We also offer a lot of different health clinics in order for people to come in and get things like podiatry, optometry, dental, counseling. We've run vaccination clinics. We're constantly looking for ways to get that wider community in, and just getting in the door might be the first step to potentially being able to sit down and say, "How have you been going?"

Drew Radford:

You mentioned there that wider community. How wide is the net that you cast? I mean, what's the maximum distance somebody really needs to travel to get in to see you guys?

Megan Lee:

Yeah. That one came up more recently because we currently have someone on our radar that we really want to just get out and see and make sure they're traveling okay. And that trip is an hour and a half just to get there, so a three-hour round trip just to go out and see them.

Drew Radford:

That's an important point though, in terms of you were saying you hold clinics, but you provide outreach programs as well. You're on the road.

Megan Lee:

Definitely. And part of being on the road, we have a fantastic vehicle that is connected to our clinic, that we were able to have purchased through funding to the clinic. And that vehicles all decked out with all of the essentials that we need to be on the road. So, do a lot of our training with Ambulance Victoria, and Ambulance Victoria provide Bush Nursing Centres with the vitally important equipment that is needed to go out and respond to anything pretty much on the road.

Drew Radford:

So, what is it? Like a four-wheel clinic for want of a better description?

Megan Lee:

Yeah, pretty much. It's both equipped to respond to emergencies but also to be able to go out to someone who does live a three-hour round trip away and be able to do a full health assessment on them, and to be really able to provide that in-home service.

Drew Radford:

You mentioned a number of things there that, I guess, help with physical ailments, but you also were alluding to someone you wanted to get out and see because you had concerns. So, I'm assuming the mental health aspect is just as important as the physical health aspect.

Megan Lee:

It certainly is, particularly, as I mentioned, you're living in a rural and remote area. Some of these natural disasters that we've experienced over the last few years, they will affect these people living in these remote areas. So from that point, sitting down with them and being able to have that chat to say, "How are you going?" And then second to that, we also have the great ability to offer a counseling service from the Royal Flying Doctors here at the clinic, so we can always offer for them to come in and see a trained counselor as well.

Drew Radford:

So essentially, Megan, you're a kind of a gateway service in some regards. Obviously, you provide core needs but it's about getting someone through the door, I think was an earlier description.

Megan Lee:

Yeah, definitely. I think you've really hit the nail on the head there; that we are nurses and midwives, so we have a fair education and background in doing our nursing and midwifery role. However, there's so many other services that people might be missing out on because they live so remotely, and for us to be kind of that gateway to provide those services within this clinic means that this community becomes able to access so much more.

Drew Radford:

I spoke to a farmer recently and he said he went through a real revelation when he finally did an asset check on his property, and he worked out the most important asset was his health. Does that resonate for you?

Megan Lee:

Yeah, I think that really resonates. My husband is a farmer as well, so I can really identify with that idea that you're constantly thinking about running the farm, but sometimes you have to stop for a minute and actually go, "Well, how am I going to keep running things if I'm not running well myself?"

Drew Radford:

You mentioned it's been a long haul, nearly a decade. Finally some good rains, some good stock prices. Are you seeing a change in outlook in terms of the health, particularly the mental health of the community you serve?

Megan Lee:

Yeah. I think everyone's feeling really positive about the prices, and I know... it looks on face value, people go, "Oh, look how much you're getting for cattle prices now. The drought must be a distant memory," but unfortunately it doesn't quite go like that. It often takes a number of years to build back after all of the hard work you've done getting through the drought in the first place, but certainly these cattle prices are going a long way to rebuilding back to where we might be able to feel really comfortable about the future ahead. There's one thing to say about droughts; once you've kind of gotten out of one and the weather's looking better, it's not so much about, "Thank God that's over," it's about, "okay, let's get ready for the next one."

Drew Radford:

Megan, part of your title is midwife. Are you seeing a change in the community that you serve, their makeup? And consequently, the services that you are required to deliver to meet their needs?

Megan Lee:

Look, I think this is probably one of the more interesting aspects of this community, is what looks to be a bit of a sort of rotation in generation, I guess. There used to be, for instance, a primary school up here. That's been in recess for a number of years, so it doesn't have children servicing the school at the moment. It's running as a community house. However, people have mentioned more recently that there seems to be enough children in the community now; should they be looking at reopening the primary school and potentially offering that service? We've had three babies come into the community in the last 12 months. So, I guess in some ways, yes, there is more of a youth coming through in the population. However, I think we could say that the majority of the farmers in the area are more advanced in age. I can't say that we've seen many new young farming families come in. We've had a few, but not in a big way.

Drew Radford:

Megan, I understand that there's been a pilot program run in the region to basically better help farmers. What has that involved?

Megan Lee:

So, this is the AgVic farmer health initiative. It's been a great project that they've put forward to bush nursing centres to deliver. So, we're looking at keeping farmers, workers and farm families safe and well.

Drew Radford:

That sounds really interesting Megan, what's that really mean to farmers when you are out on the ground delivering this pilot program?

Megan Lee:

So, I think what it really means to farmers is that we are identifying that farmers are... they are a unique people. And I can say that, being the wife of a farmer. Look, they tend to spend a lot of their time away from people. They're dealing with animals, they're driving tractors, they're running large land holdings. And for the most part, it's a job that can be sometimes isolating. So, if you add to that living in a really remote community, you are essentially isolating yourself even further. And farmers tend to be fairly busy people, too. They're kind of up at sun-up and coming in the house late at night, sitting down for dinner, and it's a seven-day-a-week job. And it's something that can be highly demanding both physically and emotionally for a farmer, particularly with also climate to take into consideration and what we experience through that, and natural disasters.

Megan Lee:

So, what we're trying to do is that we're trying to reach out to these farmers and say, "Well, we know you're busy. We know that you're a long way from being able to get these health checks done. We know that your health is just as important as everybody else's. So, we're going to come to you and we're going to come and make sure that you are doing okay.

Drew Radford:

That's quite a remarkable service. So, are you generally embraced with that sort of approach?

Megan Lee:

Yeah. I would have to say I have not had one person that we've approached, one farmer, turn down the offer to be involved in this program. And I can tell you now, knowing how private some people can be I was aware that potentially some people wouldn't be interested because they would like to keep some things to themselves and feel like they're ticking along okay. Perhaps they're not ticking along okay and they're not ready to talk about things. So, for me to see every person that we've approached say, "Yes, I'm happy to be involved," it gives me a real positive outlook in regards to how this project's going to be delivered.

Drew Radford:

I can actually hear the uplift in your voice when you're saying that, so you're obviously clearly proud of it and getting really positive feedback from it. Can you share any success stories?

Megan Lee:

So I guess, success stories that we can probably look at now is.... We've really focused on vaccination as the big thing at the moment. So, I guess in one way that's a success because we've been able to get those farmers and engage with them and make sure that we're letting them know all of the information they need in order to make that decision about their health, and getting vaccinated and protecting themselves.

Megan Lee:

Not the recent centre census but the one before, there was around 100 people in the population of Dargo, but that actually swells up to about 5,000 during peak holiday time. So, to be able to get that across to our community and those that are full-time here, that just because they are on a farm and they're fairly isolated; they're still coming into town, they're still buying their daily paper or maybe dropping in for a coffee every now and then and going to the shop or going to the pub for a meal; that being on the farm isn't necessarily going to protect them. And we saw a really good uptake with vaccinations, so I guess for a start that's part of the success of rolling this out. That's held us up a little bit in regards to being able to get out and do our home visits and health assessments, but that's the next part of our goal of getting this project rolled out.

Drew Radford:

That sounds like a really positive success. So Megan, importantly, how can people get in contact with you?

Megan Lee:

They can get in contact with us directly. If they want to give us a call on the phone, our phone number here at Dargo is 5140 1246. You can drop in. We're more than happy to have anybody drop in. We can certainly sit down and talk to you about what the project's about and if you want to get involved. We also have an email, if you're on the email system, and that's the dargobnc, for bush nursing center @gha.net.au. And we also have a presence on Facebook. We put a lot of information about our upcoming events and things that are going on here.

Drew Radford:

And Megan, I imagine anybody who's listening to this in broader Victoria, if they wanted to get in contact with Bush Nursing Clinic, go on the web.

Megan Lee:

Yeah, you could definitely go on the web as well. If you're in any of the areas of the east that may be close to... I'll list the nursing centres for you: Gelantipy, Swifts Creek, Cann Valley, Ensay and Buchan. So, all of those ones are running the project as well.

Drew Radford:

Megan, you're doing a wonderful job keeping your community healthy and safe. Thank you so much for joining us to talk about the services you do provide, and all the best for continuing to do so in the future.

Megan Lee:

Thank you very much for having me come and speak today. I've really appreciated being able to put bush nursing centers out there on the map and to talk about what it is that we do. We really do feel ourselves that we're such an important part of each of the communities that we work within.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria. Authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Relocating for a job is always a big thing, but when it involves moving to the other side of the world to a country that speaks another language, it becomes an even more daunting prospect. G'day, I'm Drew Radford, and despite challenges like that, Italian-born scientist, Dr. Alessio Scalisi, is now proud to call regional Victoria his new home. He is now senior technical officer at Tatura Smart Farm, working on advanced research projects he says he would have never have had the opportunity to be involved with back in Europe. To find out more. He joins us for this AgVic Talk podcast. Alessio, thanks for your time.

Alessio Scalisi:

Thank you.

Drew Radford:

Alessio, you are a long way from where you grew up and studied. Where did you grow up?

Alessio Scalisi:

I grew up in Sicily, so my parents are originally from Catania, the city of the Etna volcano. And then for work, they moved to Palermo, the other side of Sicily. Palermo is the capital city, the main city, and that's where I was born and where I grew up.

Drew Radford:

That's a long way from northern Victoria. How did you end up in the Smart Farm?

Alessio Scalisi:

Yeah, so basically I've always had this passion for horticulture, and in my studies I did travel quite a bit. And then eventually I ended up starting a PhD in Italy. And so what happened is that in Italy or in Europe, in general, PhD students decide to go overseas to do a different experience, I guess, and learn something new, something different from a different culture.

Alessio Scalisi:

And so in the second year of my PhD, I was trying to find the best location to go and do some research. And because I worked in horticulture and in orchards, I wanted to duplicate the summer season. So I was looking for a place in the southern hemisphere, and there were not many options. And my PhD supervisor had a few contacts, one in Brazil and a couple of contacts in Australia.

Alessio Scalisi:

So I decided to come to Victoria because the contact he had, Dario Stefanelli, was a scientist in Agriculture Victoria Research (AVR). Dario knew the research that was being conducted at Tatura, especially on stone fruit, which was one of the topics of my PhD and water stress and sensing, water stress in stone fruit trees. So I just had this opportunity to bring some sensors from Italy and study water relations in the peach over here, and I could do it over the European winter months. So from September to May, where we basically have not much work in the orchards back in Europe. So I came to Australia and work here, and then I went back to Italy to finalise my PhD.

Drew Radford:

It sounded like a great opportunity for you to obviously balance the seasons and also extend your studies overseas. But you said you went back to Italy, but you've ended up coming back to Australia, and that's on a more permanent basis, I understand.

Alessio Scalisi:

Yes, that's correct. So a few years ago I had no idea that I was going to end up living and working in Australia. I was just studying and doing different experiences. And then when I came to Australia, there were a few things happening. First of all, the culture shock and also how much I actually liked living in the country of Australia in the countryside. I'm not a big city person. I wanted to move away from cities, so if I had to live in a city, I would have stayed in Europe because there are so many cities, nice, beautiful cities. And I studied in Germany, in Austria and in the north of Italy. So I actually lived in cities, and I had a feeling like that was not the type of life I wanted to live.

Alessio Scalisi:

So I just wanted to live and doing my research in a rural context, which is perfect for what happens in Tatura where we do research really next to the orchards where we can just go outside and look at the trees. And then it's like the country of Australia is so different from the countryside in European countries. So I really liked it. And then I went back to Italy. And just before going back to Italy, I already made up my mind that I was going to try to come back to Victoria and see if there were opportunities for me. And then I came back in 2019. Since then, I started this new position and am very happy with it.

Drew Radford:

That's a great story and a lot there that was involved. You also said though that there was a culture shock when you came here. So I assume there must have been a few things that you needed to get over. There's lots of opportunities, but any journey's got its bumps, I guess.

Alessio Scalisi:

Yeah. Yeah. First of all, the Australian accent was very different from the English I knew, but my English was-

Drew Radford:

Entirely.

Alessio Scalisi:

Yeah, yeah. The English I knew was not actually an English I learned from living in English-speaking countries. It was mostly from international studies that I had done with people from very different backgrounds. So it was really a mix of different accents and ways of speaking. But moving here, I learned a new totally, completely different accent. And now I'm fine. I like it. But at the start, it was really difficult to understand, and a lot of people wouldn't understand what I was saying. I remember that.

Drew Radford:

Fast learning curve there. What about actually that other thing though? You are on the other side of the world from your friends and your family. Clearly you've got experience moving to new locations and developing new networks, but that would have been a very important thing, a good social structure to support you in your career endeavors.

Alessio Scalisi:

Yeah. That's been, of course, one of the biggest challenges in terms of deciding to live so far away from my Italian family and friends. And then COVID, of course, didn't help because I couldn't travel at least that time once a year back to Italy, and I still haven't been there. So I'm planning to go back in June for a couple of weeks. In the meanwhile, I got married, and I had a young baby, so I have a 16-month-old baby now. And my family in Italy, of course, wants to see her, and they could just see her on a video screen.

Drew Radford:

That's an important connection. You obviously want to go back and establish further with your family. What about on the professional side though, Alessio? Obviously there was something here that drew you here to continue your work. So what are you actually doing, and how is that challenging you professionally?

Alessio Scalisi:

Yeah, yeah. So my job is the main reason why I'm here because I really like what I do. I work with technologies and sensors, and we always change what we do. It's new research, new science in orchards. And there is a lot of interest from the Australian horticulture industries. So there is funds available for us to do research in this field, in innovation, robotics technologies.

Alessio Scalisi:

And so it's wonderful from this point of view, because sometimes we struggle. I remember the Italian universities struggle sometimes to find funding opportunities while here it feels like there is always an opportunity for us to do some interesting research. And there are so many advances every day, and we can touch them with our hands, and we can be very important role players in this advancement into Agriculture 4.0, which is the future.

Drew Radford:

Alessio, that's such an interesting insight because so often the perspective is that it's entirely the other way around. You need to go overseas as an Australian to be exposed to those sorts of things where you've actually found them in our backyard.

Alessio Scalisi:

Yes, that's right. It's always like we tend to underestimate what we have, but the reality is that Australia is a really good place to do research in horticulture. It's a beautiful place and people, I talk to growers, it's so difficult to talk to growers in southern Europe.

Alessio Scalisi:

They don't want to change their mindset. It's really difficult to drive them through big changes and paradigm shifts in horticulture and innovation and technology and the way they should manage their businesses and to face what's coming. But here, every time I talk to growers or at least most of the growers are really switched on, and they're really passionate about what they do, and they want to see change. They want to see how things are going to develop in the future, and they want to see it in their farms, in their orchards.

Drew Radford:

Alessio, you said they don't want to face things that are coming. Now I assume you may be talking about access to water being one of them. Now you are doing fairly important research regarding sensors. What are you actually doing?

Alessio Scalisi:

I work with different types of sensors. Some of them, during my PhD and at the start of my work here, I did a lot of research on plant-based sensing, basically using sensors on leaves or fruit or trunks to estimate the water stress of trees, so that we can regulate the irrigation strategy, so that we don't waste any water, and we maximise the quality and the yield of our trees. So that was my focus at the start.

Alessio Scalisi:

Now I am mostly working on predictive technologies, like non-contact sensing, like cameras and lighter multi-spectral cameras to predict some important crop parameters by just driving up and down the orchards. So there is a lot to do with artificial intelligence and predictive algorithms and how we can improve our management strategies in your orchards, so that we maximize the fruit number and quality at the same time.

Drew Radford:

You are working with some exciting technology as part of your job. It's central to your job. But my understanding though is you get to share that insight and enthusiasm for Ag 4.0 because part of the Tatura Smart Farm is you have secondary students come there. What does that involve?

Alessio Scalisi:

It feels like there is a growing interest in the schools around here and in general in Victoria. There's a push to show students what we do in horticulture and agriculture in general with these new technologies, because this way we are being able to capture the attention, not only of the standard audience of students that usually decide to study or work in agriculture, which most of them is students that come from a farming background in their families.

Alessio Scalisi:

While now there are a lot of opportunities for students that are interested in robotics engineering to join the agriculture sector and work in these industries that are rapidly developing. And there is a lot of funding, a lot of opportunities, and you don't need a specific set of skills to work in agriculture because there are so many possible ways you can contribute to this industry. If you're interested in economics, if you're interested in marketing, if you're interested in science, in biology, if you're interested in a lot of possible fields that are actually involved with agriculture.

Drew Radford:

That's a great insight. Alessio. So what would you say to a young person considering a career in agriculture in Victoria? Have you got any advice or any insights to share?

Alessio Scalisi:

I would say be committed and passionate, and there will be always opportunities. Be open-minded and open to changes because the industries are developing so fast that we need to be flexible. Our skill set needs to be flexible, so that we can adapt to quick changes that are coming, especially being passionate about technologies and the implementation of technologies in orchards and farms because thats what's coming. A lot of there is shortage of labor. We know that, and there is an increasing interest in machines and robots in orchard management.

Drew Radford:

Alessio, you've come from the other side of the planet, and you've taken this opportunity to work with somebody in Australia. But beyond that, I get impression that you've really had to work out a lot of things for yourself. What was your greatest support in trying to make that happen?

Alessio Scalisi:

Well, definitely, the passion for the job I do for research and the fact that I really like living in the countryside of Australia, and it's a beautiful place for me. I felt like support worked from the communities around Victoria. I never felt anyone was judging me for my background because people in Agriculture Victoria really do value your skills. So it's just a matter of working hard. And then at the end of the day, you'll be recognised for what you do. You'll be rewarded. And sometimes you do get a bit lonely if you live in a rural context, especially if you come from a city, but because of the beautiful countryside and the communities here, I think it's totally fine. It's definitely a nice place to work.

Drew Radford:

Alessio, all the best for your ongoing work at the Smart Farm. And it sounds like you've well and truly made Australia home with not only a career, but a wife and a young daughter. Congratulations on that and all the best for the road ahead, and thank you for sharing your journey with us on this AgVic Talk podcast.

Alessio Scalisi:

Thank you very much. It was my pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family. All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria authorized by the Victorian Government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

A visit to a dairy farm and a cheese factory pretty much sums up my total exposure to agriculture as a school student. Sure, it was a great day out of the classroom, but none of it was really sold to me as a career option. Fast forward a few decades, and that experience now involves going to a farm of the future, which requires the making of soil probes, then writing algorithms that use the probe data to map out watering schedules. G'day, I'm Drew Radford, and agriculture is an increasingly high tech business. One which requires a tech savvy workforce. To find out how that need is being met, Anna-Leisa Vietz, community education manager with Agriculture Victoria joins us for this AgVic talk podcast. Thanks for your time.

Anna-Leisa Vietz:

Thanks Drew.

Drew Radford:

We're going to be talking tech here or education tech for one of a better description. Specifically, we're going to be talking about AgSTEM. Now I know what STEM stands for. Science, technology, engineering, and maths. What though is AgSTEM?

Anna-Leisa Vietz:

Well, it's the use of STEM, as you said, science, technology, engineering, and maths as applied in agriculture.

Drew Radford:

You've got a bunch of programs that are associated with this though. I get the impression this is about setting up the next generation of farmers.

Anna-Leisa Vietz:

At Agriculture Victoria Research, we do a lot of innovation and high tech research into how we can make the production of food more efficient, how we can trace it from paddock to plate, for example, but we also want to make sure that the local communities and the school communities understand what we are doing at these research sites. And we also want to be able to impart some of those skills that we're focusing on and developing for the future. So we have developed a program called Get Into AgSTEM, and that is actually linked to the curriculum of the schools that we work with. And this way, the students and the teachers can really kind of get a handle on what we do at these AgVic research sites, by doing our workshops that are linked to their school curricula.

Drew Radford:

AgriBio and smart farms. What do these two phrases mean?

Anna-Leisa Vietz:

AgriBio is our metropolitan research facility and it's the centre for AgriBioscience. And we do bioscience-related research that's applied in agriculture, so at that site, we do some really cool stuff like a whole lot of DNA sequencing and we have very cutting edge DNA sequencing technologies. And we also do, well we have super computers where we can analyse all of that data that we get from the DNA sequencing machines, or we have a massive phenomics facility where we can look at the qualities of the plants as they grow over time and track that with a camera and analyse all that data with our supercomputers as well.

Anna-Leisa Vietz:

But then we can also support all of our regional sites where they're doing research as well. For example, we do a lot of work in the dairy sector. We do a lot of work in grains. We do a lot of work in horticulture. We also do a lot of work in biosecurity.

Drew Radford:

Anna-Leisa, it sounds more like the lab in crime scene investigation or a rocket science lab. It sounds very, very high tech.

Anna-Leisa Vietz:

You've referred to something that sounds a little bit like forensics with crime scene investigation. And absolutely, we teach the students how you would do a forensics analysis on DNA found at a crime scene, but in this context, we're using the DNA that has been taken from the tail hair of cows to work out which cow is the best one to breed for the best milk production, and what kind of genetics the offspring will have. So we're doing a kind of crime scene investigation, but it's not a crime, but it's an investigation into how well will a particular cow breed in the future by looking at her DNA.

Drew Radford:

Anna-Leisa, it sounds that the AgSTEM program is particularly important.

Anna-Leisa Vietz:

Yeah, it is because these students we've found, they have very little knowledge of how the science that they're actually already doing in school or technology, engineering, maths, how it actually relates to real world applications in the agriculture sector. And that's a really lost opportunity because there are a lot of jobs, and there's a lot of jobs that are coming through now because of digital applications in the agricultural sector. So it's a really useful context for them to think about when they're thinking about what they have to do in school anyway, but now they can actually apply it and think about what kind of job they'd like and potentially work in the agricultural sector in the future.

Drew Radford:

Anna-Leisa, one of the things is a digital agriculture workshop. What do students learn in these, and how do they get involved in these workshops?

Anna-Leisa Vietz:

If you just search, Get into AgSTEM, you'll get up our website. So Get into AgSTEM. And under our website, you'll see all of our different programs. And one of those programs is get into digital agriculture. Now this particular workshop is linked to the digital technologies curriculum. And I know some schools haven't implemented that yet. They probably will in the future, but that's fine because the actual activities, the hands on activities that the kids do, we take it for first principles. So they don't have to have any prior knowledge, although it's great if they do. For example, the students which are usually around sort of year seven to even up to year 10 in this one will construct a soil moisture sensor from scratch. And this way they get a real understanding of how in the actual agricultural field you might use any kind of digital technologies, because they have to actually make the sensor with the hardware.

Anna-Leisa Vietz:

But then they also have to do a little bit of coding to be able to retrieve their data. And then they have to actually use that data that they retrieve and make a little algorithm, which is actually an algorithm to work out what hypothetical paddock they would like to water based on the moisture reading from their soil moisture sensor. So they're getting a really kind of integrated pathway of what you would do all the way from data collection through to data storage, through to data analysis and actually making on-farm decisions using the data that they've collected. So it's very, very applied, but it's also very hands on. And so they don't have these abstract concepts like converting data to information that are actually in the school curriculum, but we actually get them to convert data to information in real life so they can go, "Okay, I've got this particular soil moisture reading, but that means I do actually have to water the plant." Or, "I don't have to water the plant."

Drew Radford:

That's Anna-Leisa Vietz describing learning opportunities that sound light years from the pedal powered school of the air wireless. One school that accessed this opportunity is Virtual School Victoria or VSV. And Sarah Dennis is an agriculture and horticulture teacher at VSV that has embraced the getting into digital ag workshop as part of the ag hort course. Sarah, firstly what is VSV?

Sarah Dennis:

Well, it's an online school. It used to be known as Distance Education Victoria. And so we provide learning to students across Victoria who may not be able to attend mainstream school for a variety of reasons. They might be professional sports people or performing in plays, or they might be traveling, or they might not be able to attend mainstream school because of physical or social-emotional difficulties. And we also get a really large number of students who can't study the subjects that they want at their particular school. So they're based at school, but they can't actually access subjects that they want. And we'll provide them with those subjects.

Drew Radford:

That's a fantastic reference, distance education. I mean, it almost goes way back then, I guess, a modern interpretation of school of the air, but providing so much more.

Sarah Dennis:

That's exactly what it was. And now it's all online virtually, all the content's online and with the ag hort course, which is what I deliver, we engage with lots of farmers and producers and industry bodies to get students aware of what's out there in the industry.

Drew Radford:

Well, that's really crucial, isn't it? In terms of educating and enticing the next generation of farmers.

Sarah Dennis:

Absolutely. That's what excites the students, and tackling those big issues that are in our news all the time. Like feeding growing populations, climate change, food security, that's what students love. And this is a great way to introduce them to what ag hort does.

Drew Radford:

Agriculture has become so high tech, and as part of your course, you took students on a tour of a smart farm, Tatura Smart Farm. How do you do that for a virtual school?

Sarah Dennis:

We organize it like a regular excursion. It's preferable that students actually come to the farm or to the excursion and experience it, you know, physically be there. But we also, you know, students are from across the whole state, so it can be very difficult for some kids to get there. So I will also live stream the tour and the activities for students who can't attend on the day and they can tune in from wherever they are.

Drew Radford:

That's remarkable. Because suddenly you go from not just being an educator and a teacher, but also a camera person.

Sarah Dennis:

A very novice camera person. That's for sure. I just use my phone and the students can tune in and attend the tour. It's actually surprisingly easy to do. And it's amazing how flexible and willing people are to be involved in this sort of technology to get students involved in the industry.

And students engage really well with it. They can ask questions via the livestream app and I will ask that on their behalf throughout the tour. So they're actually engaging. They're not just sitting and watching. They can engage with the tour and you know, and we've all done it this year through COVID. And I think it's really exciting for ag hort being able to go out into a whole range of industries across the state and bring that into the classroom. You're not limited by your location.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like a remarkable learning opportunity to say the least. So the day of the tour, tell me about where you went and what the tour involved.

Sarah Dennis:

The first activity we did in the morning was to get a tour of the farm and facilities at Tatura. Our main aim coming to the Smart Farm was to expose the students to the innovations and technologies that they're using at the farm. So part of the VCE curriculum, the study design for year 11 and 12 is for students to investigate research projects and innovations in agriculture. And these smart farms are a awesome resource, and they're willing to let students come visit. So I think it's amazing for educators.

Drew Radford:

Sarah, the smart farm, what's it actually do? I guess the name gives it away a bit, but what's so special about it?

Sarah Dennis:

It's a research farm. It's a horticulture base, the Tatura one, they're trialing different technologies to streamline and gather data and respond to climate change and protect production in those areas. The students got to see a whole range of equipment in use in the field or in the orchard. So some equipment was measuring fruit colour, the size of the fruit, soluble sugars, ethylene production, and the students were able to see that in action and relate that to the course and the material that they're learning. But also the whole course actually, not just with the innovation section, they're able to relate that to markets and quality assurance, which they learn about later on in the year. So there's lots of things that they're picking up while watching these technologies, but it's a great way for students to engage in agriculture and see these amazing projects and innovations that have been developed.

Drew Radford:

That was my next question. How did the students react? And so I assume they went away viewing agriculture in a fairly positive and possibly even a new light.

Sarah Dennis:

Yeah, absolutely. There was lots of comments during the day expressing how impressed they were with the technology and the thought. And I think you know, it's one thing to learn about these innovations in the classroom or online, but to actually see them in the field and talk with the people using them, it makes it much more real and exciting for the students. And they can also see career opportunities and pathways in those technologies as well. So there was a lot of discussion during the day and afterwards, just about what we saw, we actually had some parents come along as well, because they had to drive their children up to the farm, and they were really impressed as well. So yeah, there was lots of positive feedback about the technologies and the Smart Farm.

Drew Radford:

And Sarah, you as an educator, what did you get out of the day?

Sarah Dennis:

Well, it's great for my professional development, and you know improving my knowledge base because innovation's changing all the time. And to hear it from experts is always great. And I guess it allows me to engage the students more in real life experiences. I'm always trying to encourage the students to think about the pathways and careers. And I think that visiting a smart farm was excellent for that as well.

Drew Radford:

Sarah Dennis, it sounds like you work in an amazing field as an educator at Virtual School Victoria, all the best for the future. It sounds like you're involved in a sector that's just going to keep on literally growing.

Sarah Dennis:

It's really exciting. This was our first year of delivering agriculture and horticulture by VSV. And I think it's going to be a really big area.

Drew Radford: For more information on Agriculture Victoria’s “Get into AgSTEM” schools’ program, or to arrange a school workshop at an Agriculture Victoria SmartFarm, please visit getintoagstem.com.au.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback. So please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

There's an old adage that farmers are far more likely to call a vet for their livestock than they are to call a doctor for themselves. A pilot health program currently being run in East Gippsland is making great inroads in changing that.

Drew Radford:

G'day, I'm Drew Radford, and the program essentially involves taking a health clinic right to the farmer's door. The people delivering it are bush nurses like Sue Carroll from Swifts Creek Nursing Centre. And to find out how it works, she joins us for this AgVic podcast. Sue, thanks for your time.

Sue Carroll:

My pleasure.

Drew Radford:

Sue, I understand you grew up on a farm. So what does bush nursing mean to you and to remote communities?

Sue Carroll:

So yeah, a lot of farmers out there don't want to go for assistance, think they're really tough and will continue on working hard and not getting any help with their medical conditions. So being a bush nurse and me growing up on a farm and being well aware of what farmers do, and sheep and shearing, I can speak their lingo and I can actually go out and talk to them. And because I've worked at Swifts Creek Bush Nursing Centre now for over 24 years, I've got to know all the local community, and so I can just turn up on their doorstep and say, I'm here to do a farmer health check.

Drew Radford:

We'll drill down into those farmer health checks in a little bit, but that's a long history for you in that area. But I understand bush nursing's got a long proud history in the region in Victoria, generally.

Sue Carroll:

Yes. The Swifts Creek Bush Nursing Centre, we actually celebrated our centenary in 2018. Of course, it's changed a lot over those hundred years and we've got a lot more equipment, a lot more education and have to deal with very similar things, but at least we've got the equipment now to deal with all of those things.

Drew Radford:

Have you always worked as a bush nurse?

Sue Carroll:

No. I worked in the hospital system up until then. So, the bush nursing position I found advertised and it was for weekend relief, and I thought that sounds really challenging. I'd like to do that. So that was for a six-month weekend relief position. And of course it's continued on.

Drew Radford:

You mentioned you're in Swifts Creek. For those that don't know it, where is it?

Sue Carroll:

So, Swifts Creek is on the Great Alpine Road on the way to Omeo or Mount Hotham. So it's about an hour and a half drive from Bairnsdale, up a very windy road, and it's mainly a farming community.

Drew Radford:

What's that mean for local residents, to have access to a resource like you?

Sue Carroll:

It's extremely important. We're first responders for Ambulance Victoria. So we attend ambulance pagers and quite often we're the first one to arrive, to give urgent care and prepare them for transport. We do emergency care in the centre as well. So somebody might come in with chest pain or with a wound. So we suture them, if they've got a wound that can be sutured here. We look after social, emotional. We organise aged care assessments for the elderly when they're struggling in their homes. So, it's a huge job that we do and the community appreciate what we do. And when people leave this area, they do say to us, "Wow, we didn't realise what we actually had until we moved to a big town and we can't access that immediate care."

Drew Radford:

Sue, tell us about that community then. How many people and what's their makeup?

Sue Carroll:

So, it's mainly a farming community, but the population escalates over summer, especially if there's bushfires. So in the 2019 to 2020 bushfires, the population exploded because of all the emergency services workers that came in or (Country Fire Authority) CFA and extra (Department of Environment, Land, Water and Planning) DELWP. And we were caring for a lot of those people who were injured. They did have first responders, ambulance people, but most of them were brought into the Bush Nursing Centre for the care. So the DELWP is here. There's a primary and a secondary school with only a small population, and there's a few small businesses in the area.

Drew Radford:

Sue, you mentioned people have commented to you when they've left the area. They didn't realise what they had in terms of the services you provide. But I understand you have recently had the opportunity to expand those further, through a pilot project. What's that involved?

Sue Carroll:

So, it's farmer health checks. So Agriculture Victoria approach the Eastern Bush Nursing Centres to say this area is lacking for farmer health checks and the hard to reach farmers. So were we interested in coming on a board to do this pilot project? And of course we said, yes, we want to help out our community. So it's a really good initiative, it's created a lot more work for us, but we're having really positive outcomes. And the majority of the farmers are really happy to be assessed.

Drew Radford:

So obviously, it's about better connecting with remote farmers. How does it function in Swifts Creek, in the area that you service?

Sue Carroll:

So, because I know the majority of the population here and I am a farmer's daughter, and I can understand what they're doing, sometimes I just arrive on their farm or on their doorstep and say, have you got time? I'm here to do a farmer health check, and I explain what that is. And if they haven't got time, then we organise an appointment. Sometimes I ring ahead and say, are you happy for me to come and do a check? And I think I've only had one person who said, "No, I don't want to do it” at this stage.

Drew Radford:

So, the opportunity to target sounds a very successful way of making sure the community is healthy.

Sue Carroll:

Yes. Yeah. Otherwise, they avoid these checks, and we have a doctor that comes here who specialises in skin checks. So when I do the farmer's assessment, I say, can I book you in for a skin check? And we've already had one farmer, who's had a squamous cell carcinoma removed. So, that's just a great outcome for that. Because we do a blood pressure, and one of the farmers had quite a high reading at the time, so we have a 24-hour blood pressure monitor at the centre, so I put that on and his levels came back extremely high, so he's been commenced on antihypertensive to control his blood pressure. So, we've had a couple of really good outcomes already.

Drew Radford:

They are phenomenal outcomes, because you're talking about a couple of examples there that could significantly shorten somebody's life.

Sue Carroll:

Absolutely.

Drew Radford:

That must be a good feeling though, to be in a position to be able to provide that. I mean, obviously you've got in the role to help people, but to actually be able to go out and proactively knock-on doors and get results like that.

Sue Carroll:

It is really good. And because I'm a cervical screener, I get the females with a cervix to come in and have their screening done so that we don't miss anything there. And that's a five yearly screening, so the ones who haven't had that screening in the last five years, at least I can access them as well.

Drew Radford:

I imagine that sign posting to other services is just as an important element that you deliver as well.

Sue Carroll:

Yes, yes. So we can refer on to other services and keep that momentum rolling.

Drew Radford:

Sue, you mentioned that you'd been through horrendous bushfire period, and you've been talking about physical health. I imagine mental health support would be almost just as an important, if not even more important component of what you help deliver.

Sue Carroll:

Yes. And part of that farmer health check, we do a K10, which is a mental health score. And so we get them to sit there and do that. And we say, be honest with it. And then we add up that score. And then if we think they are struggling, then we refer them on to a counselor or a psychologist. And now we're having Royal Flying Doctor Service (RFDS) psychologists come up, which is fantastic. So we can book them in for that. There's also the farmerHAT, which is the health assessment tool that they can go online and do their own assessment. And they can keep a record of that as well, themselves, just to see how they're traveling.

Sue Carroll:

If I had done these assessments last year or two years ago, the mental health scores would've been really poor for so many farmers, but because we've had rain, the rivers are flowing, the dams are full, they're not having to feed out for their cattle and sheep all the time, the mental health certainly has improved in this area.

Drew Radford:

That's a fantastic win, and may it continue for your local community. How can people access you and also the broader bush nursing services?

Sue Carroll:

We're actually on call 24 hours a day to respond to any emergencies or anyone who is feeling that they're struggling. So they can actually ring our number, and somebody is usually on the end of the phone to talk to them or to come in and meet them or to go to their house. The local community are very well aware that we have to be back at work the next day, so they don't call you out late at night too often. But they can ring the Bush Nursing Centre at any time to access assistance, or they can just turn up during the weekdays. We're open Monday to Friday, nine to five, and Saturday and Sunday mornings, we provide a service from nine to 11, but we are on call the rest of the time.

Drew Radford:

Sue, the farmer health checks is a pilot project. Clearly you're seeing some positive results. Is it going to continue into the future?

Sue Carroll:

I hope they continue on with the funding because we've had such a good outcome so far. And the farmers are actually saying to me, how long is this going for, and when will you be back to do my next assessment? So they're certainly very positive about this.

Drew Radford:

Positive and also you've literally had some lifesaving outcomes through it. Sue Carroll, you're doing an awesome job, helping keep your community healthy. Thank you so much for joining us for this AgVic Talk podcast.

Sue Carroll:

Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Narrator:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Getting established in an industry can often be a long and potted path. Not all sectors though are the same. G'day, I'm Drew Radford and with agriculture, limited experience in training is not always a barrier to getting into the industry. It's more about a willingness to get stuck in and learn on the go. This pretty much sums up Cliff Bramich, orchard manager with Geoff Thompson Orchards, a role he's only been doing for a few years after a couple of decades in a totally different sector. To find out how he made the change, he joins us for this AgVic Talk podcast. Cliff, thanks for your time.

Cliff Bramich:

Not a problem. Good to be here.

Drew Radford:

Cliff. You're in the horticulture game now, but I understand that's not where you started your career.

Cliff Bramich:

No, I've been in horticulture for three years now. Previous to that, I've spent 20 years in retail working for one of the big chains and then, lucky enough to have our own supermarket for 10 years and successfully sold it and looking to get outside and work out outdoors and fell into horticulture.

Drew Radford:

Cliff. That's quite a big move. Twenty years is a career in anybody's book. And then to switch over to horticulture, how easy was that or difficult was that?

Cliff Bramich:

I think I was lucky enough to come across a large enough company that we had enough people out there and I'm definitely a people person. Working in retail, you're constantly with customers or with staff and dealing with issues and things like that. I don't think I'd be able to work on a farm by myself, it'd be pretty lonely. But we've got quite a few people here. So during picking, you can blow out to a 100 people and during other times of the year, we've got 10 people. So it's best of both worlds, I think, working outside and having different jobs. But then yeah, having the people there that I missed from retail, it was great to be able to have that human interaction.

Drew Radford:

Cliff, they use that wonderful term these days, transferable skills. So it sounds like the people skills are your important transferable skills. But I imagine you still would've had to do a reasonable amount of training to get your head around horticulture, surely.

Cliff Bramich:

Yeah, so I pretty much started off just working on a casual basis, pretty much on tractors and digging holes and fixing, all that sort of stuff. But luckily enough, they highlighted me to move up the chain, move up into management and I was sent off to do a Horticultural Certificate 4, and did a few other training things like forklift license, chemical certificates, first aid, sort of things like that. But the company's been fantastic. That's all been provided for and put those skills into me that I had the basics of before, but tuned them into horticulture, which was fairly easy to adapt to.

Drew Radford:

Cliff, you said that you blow out to a 100 people during picking time seasonal employees. What about ongoing employees? How many people are at the company, normally?

Cliff Bramich:

We're a large company with quite a few farms, but the farm that I'm managing at the moment is roughly 120 to 130 hectares of planted trees. So there's a lot of new development, a lot of fixing up of old infrastructure. So we have about 10 people here during the year, doing various different jobs from driving tractors to repair work, just day to day maintenance and care of the trees. But then, coming up towards thinning and harvest picking, it can blow out from 50 to 75, to a 100, depending on how many people we need and how quickly we want to get that fruit off the tree.

Drew Radford:

And with that full-time workforce that you do have, how many of them are new to horticulture?

Cliff Bramich:

So there's a couple of new young blokes that we've got. They've finished high school a couple of years ago and had different ideas of being diesel mechanics or getting a job somewhere else. But they've fallen into place and working on a casual full-time basis as you call it. We get a lot of migrant workers coming into the farms. It's hard to get Australian residents to come out to the farms and give it a go. But generally, the majority of our workforce are new Australians that have come in and generally want to work a little bit harder to make money for their families that are here in Australia and back home. But slowly we are getting more and more younger ones coming through.

Drew Radford:

In regards to some of those permanent people that you do now have on your books, Peter Finlayson, I understand he's one of those. How did you come across Peter?

Cliff Bramich:

Being in a large organisation that we are, we are lucky enough to have nine farms out there and packing sheds and all that sort of stuff. So Shepparton is a big enough area. There's a lot of different people, but everyone knows someone along the way. So I think it was word of mouth that Peter had finished school and was looking for something to do. So we needed a active young bloke to come out and work for us. And yeah, he fell in our laps.

Drew Radford:

Is that a lot of work though, bringing a person up to the skill set for working in horticulture? It sounds like Peter had some farm experience, but I don't know if he had horticulture experience?

Cliff Bramich:

No. So I think you're either a hands-on person or a person that likes to sit behind a desk. The thing that I find with farming, with horticulture that we're in, every day is different, but as long as you want to have a go and get in there and learn different skills, there's people there to teach you and show you how to use things. It's the mentality that I don't want to work outside in the hot sun that sorta keeps people away from horticulture, but other people love working outside in the outdoors.

Drew Radford:

Cliff, you talked about the willingness and the keenness to be in that environment. But what about actually then making sure you've got the skill sets to do that? You went off and did some training or is it really much on the job?

Cliff Bramich:

Yeah, a lot of it is on the job, learning along the way. As you go through the season, there's different jobs to do. Like I said, there's tractor work, there's infrastructure. So what we like to do here is not set one job for one person. We like to have everyone across the board, learning all the skills. So whether it's a young guy, old guy, everyone's in there, everyone gets their hands dirty. But then, also, we try and teach everyone about tree health, nutrition, all that sort of stuff.

Cliff Bramich:

The difference is if someone asks questions and shows an interest in it, you can tell that they're enjoying their job. So Peter, for example, is always asking questions about what's the next step in the trees and those sorts of things. We have sent Peter off for a few different courses, chemical course, which we need to use for chemicals and definitely there's opportunities there to do what I did and go off and actually get a certificate which will back up your knowledge set.

Drew Radford:

Cliff. Is it hard to hang on to staff in your sector?

Cliff Bramich:

I haven't actually had any issues hanging on with staff. It's more of a turnaround in yearly pickers, but the current staff that we've got, they've probably been a good group for the last two or three years. We just try and make it a nice, happy environment to come to work to and safe environment, and they go home knowing that they've achieved something for the day. So I've been very lucky with people here that no one's left in my time that I've been here. In regards to my previous history with retail, we had a constant turnaround of staff, people using the retail industry to step up to go to uni and just filling in time or getting a bit of pocket money on the side. But horticulture, there's a huge range of different possibilities you can have if you want to.

Drew Radford:

That's a really positive thing to actually hear. I would've imagined that hanging onto staff and salary pressures would be a really difficult thing.

Cliff Bramich:

Maybe I've just been lucky. I'm sure there are some farms that can't retain staff. But like I said, we try our best to make everyone happy and have a safe working environment and go home knowing that they've done something, achieved something for the day, which I think everyone's looking for. It gets a bit monotonous if you just go to work and doing the same thing, day in, day out, you don't feel like you're achieving anything. But the beauty that we have here is you see that small piece of fruit hanging on the tree through to the end of the season when it's picked and put in the bin. And then when you go shopping, it's there on the supermarket shelf. So for me personally, it's very satisfying. And I think a lot of the staff here have the same view.

Drew Radford:

That's Cliff Bramich. And making it a satisfying job in a happy environment seems to be the key to hanging onto staff. It's certainly the view of Peter Finlayson, who started working for Cliff about a year ago. Indeed, working in an orchard was not a job he even considered a few years ago, back in school.

Peter Finlayson:

No. Growing up, I wanted to be more along the lines of an engineer or an architect, something a bit more technical. And then when I was in high school, I got offered a work experience at a architect firm. After doing that, I discovered that I really disliked being in an office or doing office jobs. So coming out of high school, I looked for work that was mainly outdoors or was a lot more active. After a year, so in the end of 2020, I was offered this position at Geoff Thompson on an orchard in Merrigum, which I've been working at ever since.

Drew Radford:

Clearly, Peter, you sound like you're more suited to working outdoors. Is there something particular about horticulture that appeals to you?

Peter Finlayson:

Compared to other outdoor positions, I don't think so. I think it was just mainly luck that I got to horticulture first before other positions. I have done work at a sheep farm before, so it's not my first outdoor role, but it's certainly the one that I've enjoyed the most. I'm not sure whether that's to do with just the work we do or the people I work with, but it's been the one that's most enjoyable.

Drew Radford:

You're not long in the game then Peter, have you had any specific training so far?

Peter Finlayson:

Most of my training has been on-the-job training with various equipment we have around the farm. I was lucky enough a couple of months ago, Geoff Thompson's actually provided a chemical handling course that me and a couple of the guys did, which was through TAFE. Apart from that, most of it has been taught to me by my managers at the farm.

Drew Radford:

I'd imagine those managers are pretty important for setting the tone at workplace and making it that enjoyable workplace to turn up each day.

Peter Finlayson:

One hundred per cent.  Between them and all the other guys I work with, they take a huge amount of stress off my shoulders coming in the door every morning. I'd like to think that I try and make their lives a bit easier too.

Drew Radford:

That's a great perspective. So Peter, do you have a typical day? And if so, what's it look like?

Peter Finlayson:

A typical day? It probably changes from month to month or even week to week, depending on what time of year it is. At the moment, a lot of what we're doing is spraying or just general maintenance in preparation for the upcoming harvest season. But then once harvest starts, days will change once again. Towards the end of autumn and start of winter, we enter a new phase and that will continue for a couple of months.

Drew Radford:

Peter, what surprised you about working in horticulture?

Peter Finlayson:

I don't know if there's been any surprises that has come up. Coming into the position, I didn't really have any expectations, I was pretty open-minded.

Drew Radford:

Peter, there's a lot of jobs on the go around the country at the moment off the back of the pandemic and the country's getting up and going again. So there's competitive pay and conditions out there. Has it worked out for you well in horticulture?

Peter Finlayson:

I think so. Yeah. I mean the conditions are great. I absolutely love them. As I said before, working outdoors and working who I'm with, that makes the job enjoyable. But as for the pay, one thing that has turned out really well is there's opportunity for career growth. Even just starting out, I've been quite happy with what I've been given, but the fact that there's opportunity to grow and improve that over the next five or 10 years is a real upside.

Drew Radford:

That's a really interesting point that you make. And also your boss too, Cliff, he came in and worked his way up the ladder as well. So you may have the same opportunities.

Peter Finlayson:

Yeah, I certainly hope so.

Drew Radford:

Peter, what would you say to other young people who are interested in a career in horticulture, but don't know where to get started?

Peter Finlayson:

I guess the best thing to do, especially with our picking season coming up is just give a phone call to whoever runs the local orchard. I basically just walked in one day after a quick email to one of the managers and sat down with him and asked you know, "What can I do?" And have just continued on from there. So it's no real skills or training is required. It's just willingness to get stuck in, I guess.

Drew Radford:

Peter, with that attitude, there's no doubt, I imagine that you will go far and do well in the sector. Thank you very much for joining me for this AgVic Talk podcast and sharing your experiences in horticulture and how you got started.

Peter Finlayson:

Thank you very much for having me on.

Narrator:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Twenty years ago, three brothers from India's Punjab region arrived in Australia. For them, it was a journey that took them first to New Zealand, then Renmark, before they finally established themselves as farmers in Sunraysia. Perhaps farming was inevitable as it was literally in their blood. They are from a caste that's been producing food for India, for countless generations. However, the land in this corner of Victoria is vastly different from what they grew up with. That though has been anything but an impediment. Two decades on, they're involved in horticulture, feed lotting, broadacre cropping, and are now even stone milling local grain. It's a remarkable story of success that is attributable as much to hard work as it is to support from the local community, industry bodies and government. To find out more, I'm joined in the AgVic Talk studio by son of one of the brothers, Aman Grewal.

Drew Radford:

Aman, thanks for your time.

Aman Grewal:

Thank you, Drew, for having me on here today.

Drew Radford:

Aman, tell me about your farm. Where is it and what do you farm?

Aman Grewal:

We're located in northwest Victoria in the Sunraysia and Millewa area. Our main operations are in Lake Cullulleraine, so it's about 50 kilometers out of Mildura, and we do cereal cropping and we also do horticulture crops. So the general broadacre crops of wheat along with almonds, grapes, citrus, developing that now, and also doing a few types of berries as well.

Drew Radford:

Aman, the farming enterprises were started up by your dad and his brothers, I understand.

Aman Grewal:

Yeah, Drew. So there's three brothers in the family and they've started up their farming operations at Cullulleraine. Initially we were in Renmark, just over the border. Started off with a small farming operation there. And then a few years later, we grew out into our larger operations at Cullulleraine, which is our base at the moment, doing our various cropping there, and then expanding into the milling part of the business as well.

Drew Radford:

We'll drill down into that a little bit further in a moment, Aman, but your accent's arguably thicker than mine. You grew up in Australia, but your dad and his brothers didn't though, I understand.

Aman Grewal:

Yeah, Drew. The family started to migrate from Punjab in 1988 and they first migrated to New Zealand doing various operations there, from restaurants to grocery stores, and then eventually making the move to Australia in 2000. So it was all well in New Zealand, but coming from a farming background, farming was still in the blood. There was something that the boys wanted to come back to. So we had some family in Renmark and that led us to moving to Renmark. I was actually born in New Zealand, but I was only a year old when we moved to Australia. So I've pretty much been raised here for all of my life. Yeah.

Drew Radford:

You said, farming's in the blood. And literally though, that's the way it works in Punjab, in terms of that's pretty much what your family, generations before, did, if I understand correct.

Aman Grewal:

Yeah, Drew. So in Punjab, it's all farming and that's where the households live off of. Farming is what they do and what they know of. And as long as I know, all of our generations have been doing farming. I guess farming is in our blood. We've been doing it for generations and here we are doing it today as well.

Drew Radford:

Well, you are doing it today. And indeed it's been a story of remarkable growth from landing in Australia only back in 2001.

Aman Grewal:

Yeah, Drew. So always working hard, working towards their goals. I guess, working as a family, with many members, it's really been helpful. And I think that's the main reason why we've got where we are today.

Drew Radford:

Well clearly, you're all very hard workers. From what I understand, you're working long days, full time in the family business, whilst also studying for a master's in business administration.

Aman Grewal:

Yeah, Drew. So I've done my undergraduate in agribusiness and marketing. Yeah. So I just wanted to come back to the family operation and come back into the farm. And then I started doing a masters, a MBA. So finishing that off now. Yeah. I think it's always good to work and study at the same time. I think you get to implement what you're learning in the real world experiences. And I think it's great to come back into the family business, to keep it alive, keep it going. Especially in regional towns, like where we are, young people tend to go to the cities and that's where they get settled. So yeah, I think it's good to come back to our roots and grow where we are.

Drew Radford:

Now, Aman, in terms of that growth and what the family's managed to build, how have you been assisted in that process in terms of information and resources that have helped your family develop? You're farming different land compared to what they were farming back in Punjab. So, have you been assisted by certain resources and programs to help do that?

Aman Grewal:

Yeah, Drew. There are various sources that are around. I think you just have to reach out to them as well. There are many industry bodies that are more than willing to help, and they've got programs that help growers to develop and innovate what they're doing. Just to put out a few examples, with the almonds you've got the Australian Almond Board. You've got here locally with the wine grapes, Murray Valley Wine Grapes and Citrus Australia. So it's organisations such as these, they help out with different aspects of growing. They've also got these programs and events that you've just got to regularly attend, and they're really helpful. You've also got some government bodies, like the DPI, Department of Primary Industries, Agriculture Victoria. These government bodies also provide a lot of support as well, and there's funding available and training opportunities as well, for those in the industry.

Drew Radford:

Has the family been able to do courses which have helped them get their head around things like irrigation or benchmarking stuff.

Aman Grewal:

Yeah, definitely. On how to improve your efficiency through irrigation, or how to increase your efficiency and effectiveness, I guess, and also with irrigation programs, how to irrigate, at what times and when to do it. So, there are various programs out there that also help with chemicals and fertilisers, what to use, when to use them and what the benefits are. So yeah, there are a heap of programs out there. I think you've just got to keep looking for them, and I guess ask people. People that have been in the industry, people that have been in the farming, just ask them, "Hey, I've got this problem. Can you guys help me out?" They'll help you, or they'll point you in the right direction.

Drew Radford:

Aman, how important is it to be looking for different market opportunities? You've got land, you might want to use it for something, but maybe you can't, and then you're going to have to look at, well how can we use it? So how important is it to be looking at different market opportunities with the resources you do have?

Aman Grewal:

Yeah, Drew, so our resources, obviously they're limited, so it's always good to be looking out for new opportunities that are out there. So with the land, certain land is suitable for certain crops. Other land may not be suitable for it. So that's where you've got to think outside the square. What else can be done on that land? So the land that's not suitable for almonds, you can use it for citrus or grapes or whatever it may be. You can also go back to the cereal cropping of wheat. We've also set up feed lots on the land that is not used for anything else. So it's always looking for how best you can utilise the resources that you have. It's always good to look outside the square and see what we can do best with what we have.

Drew Radford:

Well you certainly are looking outside the square with that range of commodities that you're producing. But you've also gone into value adding, I understand. Your dad and his brothers, they started Golden Grain Mills. What is it, and why did they do that?

Aman Grewal:

So, Golden Grain Mills is another segment of our business. So we do different types of flours, wheat flour. You've got your chickpeas, maize, gluten-free. We also do feed plants as well for stock feed. We started this operation in 2009. This was after the drought that we had. As you would know, with times of drought, it's always tough for everyone. We came up with the idea of setting up a mill. We've got our own grain and we needed to value add to it, to get through those tough times, I guess. And here we are, we're supplying throughout Australia and New Zealand and looking for different market opportunities as well, and expanding our business.

Drew Radford:

So Aman, what's particularly unique then, about the product that Golden Grain Mills is producing?

Aman Grewal:

Our wheat that we're milling is grown in the Millewa area. So that's something unique. It's all grown locally. But other than that, the most important part is that we use the traditional method of stone grinding. So we use stone to grind the flour. So from the grain to flour. So this is, I guess, a unique point of difference that we have. So this is a slower process, a process that tries to preserve the natural goodness of the grain within the flour.

Drew Radford:

So Aman, what's the market demand for that then? What sort of people are buying Golden Grain Mills' product?

Aman Grewal:

We've got a few different market segments that we've targeted. But this is mostly because we're from Punjab and India use a lot of stone ground flour in their cooking. So this was initially started off for the Indian market because there wasn't anything else similar in the market when we took off. But since then, over the years, it's evolved. People are becoming more conscious about their health and consumer demands, I guess, are changing as well. So we've managed to get into different market segments, even into the mainstream market.

Drew Radford:

It's a great example, Aman, of, well, how do we create a revenue stream during a drought? And now it sounds like it's become quite a big part of the family business.

Aman Grewal:

Yeah. So this is a significant part of the family business. As I was saying before, we've been expanding over the years and the best part is that we get to grow the grain and also process it. So we've got that whole chain that we're looking after and we get to supply the market, the community with some great products.

Drew Radford:

Is a good part also, Aman, working with your family?

Aman Grewal:

Yeah. It's absolutely great working with the family, helping out. So it's definitely great to support each other and keep going.

Drew Radford:

Aman, your family's got a great story in terms of coming to the region, and 20 years later, what you've built. Where do you see the future in the Mallee for your family from here on in?

Aman Grewal:

The whole family is involved, and the future generations, they're also getting involved in the family operations. And the Mallee area has been absolutely great for us. Over time, we've built our relations with the people here, which has been absolutely great. So I think there's a long-term future that we see in horticulture and in this area of the world, I guess. I think there's a bright future ahead for the family in horticulture.

Drew Radford:

Aman, it certainly does sound like the family has got a great future there. And the region is also benefiting from all the work that your family and you are doing. Thank you for taking time and joining me in the AgVic Talk studio today.

Aman Grewal:

Thanks, Drew. Thanks for having me on here today.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Ian Hastings:

The fire on the ground was burning across my hands and my face. And I was reasonably severely burnt, both hands, front and back of my hands. The palms of my hands, of course, were on the ground in the burning fire. And the fire went over the backs of my hands and burnt that quite severely as well. And, by this stage, I'd exposed both sides of my face to the fire. So it also was reasonably badly affected.

Drew Radford:

This is the horrendous story of Ian Hastings, a farmer who's always placed safety at the top of his list of priorities. So much so, he even spent years running safety expos for schools on his property. G’day I'm Drew Radford and Ian Hastings joins us for this important AgVic Talk podcast on harvest safety. To not only tell his story, but crucially to share what he's learned so that others can avoid the same. Hello Ian.

Ian Hastings:

Yes. Hello, Drew. Happy to be here.

Drew Radford:

Ian before we get to the details of what happened on that day, tell us about your property. Where is it and what do you farm?

Ian Hastings:

Okay. We farm in the Victorian Mallee, south-west of Ouyen, and we are dryland croppers. We grow all of the normal things depending on early season rainfall. Sometimes take some grains out of the mix and obviously also world prices. So at the moment we're growing wheat, barley, lupins, and some vetch for hay.

Drew Radford:

That's a reasonable mix Ian. And over what sort of space are you growing those crops?

Ian Hastings:

We're currently cropping about 4,400 hectares.

Drew Radford:

Ian, that's a fair bit of cropping. I get the impression that you are a reasonably safety-focused bloke, because we're going to talk about the accident that happened to you in 2019 with a fire, which was horrible. But you are a safety-focused guy because I understand you actually already had a firefighting rig on your chaser bin. And I don't reckon that'll be that common.

Ian Hastings:

Well Drew. Yes. No it's not very common and we do have it, but look, I need to go back a step. I was quite involved in the local VFF branch and my wife and I, and some neighbors actually set up and ran a farm safety expo. And we had at one stage 15 schools sending their students to that. And we did it for 12 years. So we had a safety outlook, I suppose you could say, about 18, 19 years ago was our first one. And we've tried to be safety conscious ever since. And yes, the fire that occurred two years ago on our property was really the first time we've put our thoughts and our skills to the test.

Drew Radford:

Ian, that's a really strong focus on safety and something to be proud of. And I imagine few could even match it. And you also live and breathe that as well. Because as I understand on the day of the fire, during harvest, you had a firefighting unit with you in the field. What went wrong?

Ian Hastings:

Yeah. Okay. Well look just running through the scenario of that day. We had two harvesters in the paddock, two headers. And when one of those headers turned, there was a reasonable but gentle breeze and it must have blown some smoldering straw off when he turned. And the wind direction then was in the opposite direction. That started the fire. My header was heading towards where the fire had started, so I saw it. The other header was going away and didn't see it. And initially I yelled, "Fire, fire, fire!" on the UHF radio. And the chaser bin, at that point, was about a kilometres and a half away, maybe even two kilometres away, at the other end of the paddock, emptying into the field bin of the truck. And so I asked him to travel back to where I was as fast as he possibly could. And on the way to start the Honda motor, which was the driving force for the firefighting unit.

Drew Radford:

And so Ian that's attached to the chaser bin. So the chaser bin turns up and then it's a case of running out the hose and fighting the fire. Is it?

Ian Hastings:

Yes. Sorry Drew I'll go back a step. We set this up. We put a 1200-litre plastic tank on the front of our chaser bin, mounted it up there. And then we set up the Honda firefighting unit with a hose on the side of the chaser bin in front of one of the wheels. The point was that the chaser bin is always manned in the paddock. Whereas if you have a trailer or even a ute with a firefighting unit in the back of it, somebody has to take time to get to that unit. Whereas my thoughts always were that the chaser bin always had somebody sitting in the seat and the motors running, and that's going to be the quickest way to get water to a fire. So that was always what was behind it. And so he then came as fast as he could.

Ian Hastings:

And by the time he got there, I had been going across and back with my header in front of the fire, with the header right on the ground, trying to lower the fuel load. Dropped that as low to the ground as I possibly could. And at the time the fire was only very benign is the only way to say it. It was only traveling quite slowly. It was only 30 to 40 centimetres high and it was quite a benign fire. So I had time to go across and back, 12 cuts across and back, in front of the fire before the chaser bin got there. So, it really wasn't anything at that point to be too concerned about.

Drew Radford:

So he turns up with the chaser bin. You've really lopped it down as low as you can go. What do you do? You run over and grab the fire hose and go to work, do you?

Ian Hastings:

Yeah, well, when he was getting close, I took my header and parked it up behind the fire. In other words, where the fire had been. And then ran down to where he was and met him. And sort of told him where I wanted him to stop and everything. And I unrolled the hose and headed over to the fire with the hose. And as a lot of people now know when I got there, I hadn't realised that the Honda motor had not been revved up. It was only just idling. So when I turned the nozzle on the fire hose on to squirt the fire, it was about a little boy's stream. So that's when I ran back, by the way, I was 71 years old at the time. So running was not as fast as it used to be. But I ran back to the chaser bin to rev the motor up.

Drew Radford:

What happened Ian? It doesn't sound like you were far away from the pump on the chaser bin?

Ian Hastings:

No, no, no. It was only the length of the hose. So I think from memory it's about a 12 metre hose. So I was only 12 to 15 metres away from the chaser bin. And I ran. Well I suppose the speed that I ran was probably dependent upon how urgently I saw the need. And as I say, it was really only a little benign flame at the time. So I ran, but I probably didn't run as fast as maybe I could have. We've done some reenactment sort of work. And it turns out that it was only about four seconds from when I turned out at the fire front to get back there. And, and my intention was to just hit the throttle lever on the Honda motor. And I'm very, very familiar with Honda motors. I knew exactly where to go. The moment I got to the motor I flicked the throttle lever. And then as I turned around to head back to the fire, that's when the fire hit me.

Drew Radford:

Ian the fire hit you, but you're saying it's pretty benign. So what, what changed?

Ian Hastings:

Well, I wish I knew. I wish I knew. As I said, I was plus of 70 at the time, I've been farming most of my life. And lots of times in the past we used to burn paddocks. We knew what fire could do. We were very familiar with fire. So what happened this time was absolutely and totally out of anything that I expected. As I turned my head around the fire came through me about two metres high. Before I even got to facing back the way I had come. In other words, I was only a quarter of the way through my turn when I noticed the flames going over the wheels of the tractor on the front of the chaser bin. So I meant to just replay that incident, I turned my face into the fire. I immediately then turned away.

Ian Hastings:

I turned 180 degrees and in doing so, lost my balance and fell over. And I fell down into the fire and the fire on the ground was burning across my hands and my face. And I was reasonably severely burnt, both hands, front and back of my hands. The palms of my hands, of course, were on the ground in the burning fire. And the fire went over the backs of my hands and burnt that quite severely as well. And by this stage, I'd exposed both sides of my face to the fire. So it also was reasonably badly affected. And even though I had long sleeved cotton shirt and trousers on where I fell onto the ground on my knees, the fire was obviously very hot and it burnt my knees through the trousers without even scorching the trousers. And the same thing on my elbows. I fell to my elbows as well. And again, they were totally covered by the cotton drill shirt, but my elbows got reasonably badly burnt through the cotton. And, and again, no mark on the cotton whatsoever.

Drew Radford:

Ian, the injuries just sound absolutely horrendous. And literally in the blink of an eye that occurred. You're a well prepared person, and it jumped from 45 centimetres to two metres and you received those horrendous burns in the blink of an eye. What happened from there? I assume you rushed to hospital.

Ian Hastings:

Well, the first thing was that the flame, and of course the smoke that went with that flame, was quite intense. It didn't last very long, of course, but the driver in the chaser bin tractor... I was at this stage lying or crouching on the ground right in front of the big wheel on the chaser bin. And the chaser bin was half full of grain. So I am so thankful that his initial immediate reaction to drop the clutch on the tractor and get out of the road didn't happen because had he done that he would've run over me. I was in the smoke and dust; he couldn't see me. He's told me since. And I don't know why he didn't drop the clutch and get the tractor and chaser bin out of the fire, but he didn't. And that's the reason I'm still alive to be honest. Then when I did get out of the road, onto the burnt area, I waved him away.

Ian Hastings:

And he drove over the hose because I'd left it laying on the ground. And so we fixed the hose. And then I walked up to my header and rang my wife because it's about 30 kilometres or a bit more from Ouyen where we were on a back road. And I just couldn't comprehend trying to explain that to a 000 operator in Melbourne and get the message back. So I thought my quickest way to get to care and attention was to ring my wife. I knew exactly where to come. And then I sat in my header and what water I had with me I poured over my burns until she arrived and we headed back. And then my daughter-in-law's house was halfway back towards Ouyen. And she met us at the road with a bucket of iced water, which I was able to continue pouring over my hands and knees and elbows and things and into hospital in Ouyen. And so it was probably about an hour, I guess, from when I was burnt until when I made it into the hospital.

Drew Radford:

Ian you're remarkably pragmatic in the description, but it didn't stop at Ouyen, you ended up in Melbourne I understand a number of skin grafts later.

Ian Hastings:

Yes. So in Ouyen, they assessed and cleaned and checked and talked to doctors, I presume. And then they transferred me to Mildura in an ambulance. I got up there about nine o'clock at night, and they worked on the burns, which of course by this stage were blistering quite badly. And they were cutting those blisters off. And they had to remove my wedding ring because that finger was swelling up pretty badly. And that took quite a while. They eventually took me around to a ward about 2:00 am and through the time they'd been working on me, that there was a discussion about an air ambulance taking a child to Melbourne, and maybe they should put me on that air ambulance, but then that didn't happen. I'm not really sure why, but the next morning they cleaned up where they'd been and sent me home. And a couple of days later a liaison person from the Alfred Hospital Burns Unit rang and said, where are we?

Ian Hastings:

And we said, we're at home. And she said, why? And I said, well, where should I be? And she said, well, you were actually booked into Melbourne into the Burns Unit. Why aren't you here? And I said, "Well, nobody told us." Which was the unfortunate part. So by that stage, I was getting fairly untidy and my eyes were nearly closed, and I wasn't in a very good shape at all. And my wife was getting a bit nervous about not being a nurse, not knowing how to look after me. I'd been to the local hospital again and had dressings redone, but they also were concerned and they didn't have the right dressings and so on. So anyway, it was a Friday afternoon when this liaison nurse rang from Melbourne and we then drove down virtually overnight to Melbourne, Kathy and I, and yes, then the next week or two, I don't even remember exactly now, but they dressed and assessed for the first couple of days and then decided to do the skin grafts and peeled a fair patch off my leg and put it on mostly on the backs of my hands.

Ian Hastings:

And yeah, the rest is history, as they say, I'm fully recovered and I'll probably have skin troubles around my face where the worst of the burns were in years to come. But at the moment I'm travelling reasonably well.

Drew Radford:

Ian that is a horrendous story to say the least. And I'm very pleased that you have recovered. Your focus now, though, on making sure this doesn't happen again, ever to you or anybody on your farm, or really anybody else in primary production. What changes have you made to your system? I understand, first of all, let's talk clothing. What, what changes have you made on your property concerning clothing?

Ian Hastings:

Well, none as far as I'm concerned, because I believe the cotton drill, long-sleeved cotton drill shirt and trousers are still the best protection. So I will continue to wear that and I'm encouraging everybody else. Now I'll go back a step also and say that we didn't at this point, and we still don't, have a policy on our farm that employees must wear high vis. We are only concerned about them wearing suitable clothing. However, the young guy who was driving the chaser bin had decided himself to go and buy a high vis shirt. And we said, oh yeah, good. We didn't take any further notice. And what we found out after the fire was that that was made of flammable material. And he got out of the tractor to help me get the hose unwrapped, and then I said to get back in the tractor, and I'm so glad that I did, because had the fire come across and got him, it would've burnt him very severely.

Ian Hastings:

So we will make sure in the future that people, if possible that they wear cotton drill, because yes, it's considered to be hot, but it's also good protection. And that's what we will all continue to wear.

Drew Radford:

Ian, what about your firefighting unit? You're already ahead of the pack with your firefighting unit, but I understand you're really focussed now on just not getting out of the cab to deal with a situation like this in the future.

Ian Hastings:

Yes. We had the water; we had the pump. We thought we were as well prepared as we could be, but what we've learned from this incident has told us that we have to be better prepared. So what I have done is set up a nozzle on the front right hand side of the tractor, and I've made that nozzle so it is adjustable in direction only. I can't find anything to allow me to adjust the stream. The ones on the front of the CFA trucks, which would do exactly what I want are $19,000 each. And no farmer will ever pay that sort money to have it sit there and possibly never use in their lifetime, so that's out of the question. I have tried and tried the various manufacturers, and I can't find anything less than about $8,000 or $10,000 to do the job. So I've got an ordinary firefighting nozzle that everybody can buy out of their local shop.

Ian Hastings:

I've set the aperture, if you like, the opening to be what I think will be the best to fight a fire, and then I've made it so that it's able to be moved up and down and left and right. So that that can be controlled from inside the tractor. And we also have then taken away the Honda operated pump, the petrol motor pump, and we've put a hydraulic pump back there. The situation now is that the operator of the chaser bin tractor can put the hydraulics in gear for that pump and then he has water and we have a switch to open a motor valve to allow the water to go through to the nozzle out the front, and, he then has two switches which will allow him to move that nozzle up and down or left and right.

Ian Hastings:

And the theory behind all of this is that the driver's door on a tractor is always on the left. And my thoughts are that if we have the fire on the right hand side of the tractor and something goes wrong, then the driver can open the door and run away from the fire on the left hand side. So that's the philosophy, what I found last year was that it didn't work as well as I had hoped, and so I've got to make some modifications and spend a bit more money, and, and I will do that before harvest starts this year.

Drew Radford:

You said spend a bit more money, Ian, and you drew the comparison with the professional units, but what sort of money have you got away with so far to set up this remarkable system on your chaser tractor?

Ian Hastings:

Very little, the way that we move the nozzle up and down and left and right is with two linear actuators and they are relatively cheap. A couple of hundred dollars will buy you the pair of them with the ability to move them. So that's quite cheap. And obviously a firefighting nozzle is, is also quite cheap. The expense is in the pump. The hydraulically operated high-pro pump is the one that I've chosen. And to buy the brand new unit that I want is about $4,000. So that's probably the expensive bit, but having used the proto-type of that last year, we pinched one off one of our sprayers. That is definitely the way I need to go. It has to be a robust centrifugal pump that can pump high pressure and be operated by hydraulics. So that you've just always got it available.

Drew Radford:

Ian, you mentioned that it didn't quite go to plan. I assume practice and using and familiarisation are really important with this system like this.

Ian Hastings:

Well, that's the other thing that went wrong last year. We had a young girl driving our chaser bin for the entire harvest. And the only time she was not in this tractor was that weekend. She had a weekend off and we had another driver in there. Unfamiliar, and we had not taken the time to ensure that she knew how to operate the firefighting unit. Now, worse than that, I jumped into the chaser bin tractor and said, I'll do it. But then I didn't know how to operate it myself. And I thought I did. So the buttons that I pushed didn't achieve the result that I expected. And I was incredibly frustrated that here I was with my you beaut gadget and I could not make it do what I wanted. So that's one of the other things that we've come to realise is that everybody that is likely to be in that tractor must do practice work with it, must operate it from time to time and know how to make it work.

Drew Radford:

Ian you're sharing your story very generously and hoping other farmers take away from this and hope that they never deal with what you have dealt with. Are there any other key messages? What's the key message you would like those listening to this to take away?

Ian Hastings:

We thought we had the Rolls Royce. It turned out we didn't, but that's only one part of it. The other part is that we did not ensure that everybody knew how to operate it. And whatever your firefighting system is, my recommendation, so strongly, would be that everybody who may end up on any part of that firefighting unit has to do regular trial work with it. So they know how to make it work. There is no time to think when you have a fire, it has to be an automatic reaction. And that's what I found that I thought I knew, but when I did the things that I thought would make it work and they didn't, I couldn't think.

Ian Hastings:

There is not time to stop and think. You're too busy either trying to make it work the way you are, or else getting out of the road. So my very, very strong recommendation would be if you have a firefighting unit, then every person who's likely be in the paddock must operate it. Don't just be told how to do it. They must operate it and then go and fill the firefighting unit up again. It's the only way that it becomes really non-thinking usable.

Drew Radford:

Ian Hastings so pleased that you have recovered from that and the progress that you've made to make you and your team even safer into the future. Thank you for taking the time and sharing your story and your insights in this AgVic Talk podcast.

Ian Hastings:

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity Drew. Look, I'm very concerned to make sure that ours works best and that we all know how to use it safely, but I'm also the sort of person who is happy to share that information and hope others may be able to use some part of it as well to protect them and their staff.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk for more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback. So please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria authorised by the Victorian government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Improving on-farm safety has many benefits. Often, that includes productivity gains. G’day, I'm Drew Radford and this was exactly what Emma Bolding and her partner Steve found when they upgraded the safety of their cattle yards. They produce organic beef on their property called Ballangeich, which is just north of Warrnambool. To find out what was invFolved, Emma joins us for this AgVic Talk Podcast. Emma, thanks for your time.

Emma Bolding:

Thanks, Drew.

Drew Radford:

Emma, you're organic beef producers. For those unfamiliar, how do you define organic beef?

Emma Bolding:

So we are a certified, organic beef producer. So that means that each year we have an audit that we have to go through and yeah we just got to keep a few more records than what other producers might have to do. So we're restricted in the use of pesticides, certain fertilisers, and herbicides and all our animals are grass-fed. Yes. That's just how we like to do things on our farm, I guess.

Drew Radford:

Well, on your farm and being grass-fed, I assume you've got some decent rainfall. Whereabouts are you? Where's the property and what's the history of the property?

Emma Bolding:

Yeah. So we do have a fair decent amount of rainfall here. We're based just north of Warrnambool down here in the Great Southwest.

Drew Radford:

Is it your family's farm or is it your partner's family's property?

Emma Bolding:

Yeah, so it's my partner's family property. So he managed to take over running of the operation, which is really lucky, just a couple of years ago. So the both of us have got the reins and have taken control of continuing on the certification and the organic running of the farm that his father John started about 10 years ago now. So we're really quite passionate about the environment and keeping things as they are as well. So we're really loving it.

Drew Radford:

Central to all of that is obviously safety for you and Steve and everybody who works on the property. Why has safety become such an important thing for you and Steve?

Emma Bolding:

Oh, it's just one of those things it's for us is really just a non-negotiable. We just want to make sure that ... We're working with livestock; we're working with machinery that can do quite a bit of harm to anyone that's operating them. So we just want to make sure that, for us and for our family members that come and help us out, or for anyone that's coming from off-farm, like vets, that when they come and work on our farm, that they feel like they're working in a safe environment. And we don't want to put people in a situation that they don't feel comfortable working in.

Drew Radford:

Having that as an objective and making that a reality are often two different things because it costs money. Now I understand you've gone down the path of a safety rebate. What was that for? And how does that work?

Emma Bolding:

Yeah, so we found out about the safety rebate. We were looking at upgrading our yards, particularly our crush. We were getting quite frustrated with it. Yeah, just didn't feel safe enough for us. So, that was in our business plan to upgrade our yards. And then when we found about the safety rebate, we just had to jump right on it. It meant that we could upgrade the crush straight away.

Drew Radford:

I imagine most people would be familiar with what a crush is, but for those that aren't, can you just describe what it is and what it does?

Emma Bolding:

Yeah. Good question Drew. So certain times of the year, the cattle have to come into the yards and we need to be able to hold them. So we might be able to preg test them or for some people, they might have to drench them. So we need to make sure that they're contained because we need to work closely with them and we don't want to be getting kicked or headbutted or anything by the animals. So it's basically just a box that just holds them in place, so it restricts their movement.

Drew Radford:

So, Emma you had one previously, but this was quite an old piece of equipment, so what it didn't hold them properly or you didn't feel safe? What was wrong with the old one?

Emma Bolding:

It was just old, really. It'd been there for 30 or 40 years and things were just starting to wear out, as they do. And the new crushes that they're bringing out now have a lot more access doors that you can access the animals in. Whereas the other one didn't and it actually has this squeeze feature that for the smaller animals that we're working with, it will actually hold them still better than what our old crush would have.

Drew Radford:

So, Emma you and Steve worked out you really needed a new crush to make your cattle operation safer. And you heard about the rebate that was on offer. What sort of process did you have to go through to apply for that?

Emma Bolding:

Yeah, look, it was actually quite simple. It was a couple of pages that we had to fill out and we just sat down and we had to explain what we were going to install was going to improve safety on our farm. We had to fill it out, then send through a photo when it was completed.

Drew Radford:

So what sort of timelines are involved here, Emma?

Emma Bolding:

So we sent it off and then we heard, probably a couple of weeks to when we heard back about the rebate that we were successful. And as soon as we had the go-ahead, we ordered the crush that we wanted. And that was in stock, so we were quite lucky that we were able to install it quite quickly in the next month or so.

Drew Radford:

So you've got the crush in place. Why is it different and how's it helping?

Emma Bolding:

Yeah, the crush is in place and it has made a huge improvement on our cattle workflow through the yards. We are both quite comfortable in using it. We're less stressed when we're in the yards because we know it's working. We have had a couple of vets come out that do a bit of work with us in the yard, such as preg testing. And they've commented just how much safer that they feel when they come out and work in the yards.

Drew Radford:

Well, clearly it sounds like it makes things easier, Emma. Does it also improve workflows? Are things faster in the yard?

Emma Bolding:

Yes. Yeah. We haven't had to struggle with opening and closing the crush, that the old one was just having a bit of trouble with. And when we are doing stuff like freeze branding, our bulls, it just has got those extra doors that just make it quicker for the guy that's working in there. And yeah, it just seems to just help really.

Drew Radford:

Emma, beyond the crush, what else are you eyeing on the property in terms of safety that you think needs improving or you'd like to improve?

Emma Bolding:

Yeah, Drew we're working through a bit of a OH&S, an Occupational Health and Safety Plan. And we're just trying to just look at different aspects of our business, just trying to attack it in little bite-size pieces rather than overwhelming ourselves and trying to do everything all at once. So at the moment, we're focusing on our cattle yards, we've got two properties, so we've upgraded both of the crushes in those yards. So we're working on the flow of the cattle throughout the yard. So we're changing a few of the gates and a few of the fences that are in there, so the person that's working closely in the yard with the cattle is able to manoeuvre around and the flow of stock is much better. So, that's what we're working through at the moment. And we're looking to put a shed over our yards as well. So we're out of the elements as well.

Drew Radford:

You mentioned there, you're putting in place a bit of an OH&S plan. Were those words that were ever thrown around when you're growing up on your own family property? It's a language that seems to change and safety focus that's changed so much.

Emma Bolding:

It has Drew, and it's great. There's more awareness out there now because growing up, no, that was something that wasn't spoken of. There was no OH&S plan. There was no inductions or anything for people that came on farm. It's just something that's really come out now. It was always something that mum and dad always said to make sure you're safe, but there was no OH&S plan that were in place that I can remember.

Drew Radford:

And how important is it for you and Steve to create that safety-focused culture as part of your business?

Emma Bolding:

Yeah, Drew. It's one of those things it's real high priority for us. We want to make sure that both of us can go home each night. Anyone that comes out, we've got a couple of family members that work with us. We want to make sure that they feel safe to work with us. We want to make sure that anyone that's coming from off-farm, such as vets, that they're happy to work with us and in the future we'll probably look to employ someone as well. So we want to make sure that they go home to their families each night as well.

Drew Radford:

Emma, for anybody that's thinking about improving the safety on their farm, what piece of advice would you leave them with?

Emma Bolding:

Oh, I think Drew that safety is becoming very, very important. And if anyone can start on a OH&S plan, it's just getting started on doing one. You don't have to look at every part of your business, but just start on something. It's just making a start really, that's so important.

Drew Radford:

Emma, that's a fantastic way to wrap that up. Thank you for your time. All the best for the future for you and Steve and thank you for taking the time and joining us in the AgVic Talk studio today.

Emma Bolding:

Thanks, Drew. Yeah, it's been good to chat with you about safety.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Digital agriculture, it's the use of digital data and technology to help produce food. G'day. I'm Drew Radford, and the next generation of farmers will be very familiar with the term. Indeed, many already are. Such as dried fruit producer, Stephen Bennett. For him, the digital revolution is already here and to discuss what it means, he joins me in the AgVic Talk studio. Stephen, thanks for your time.

Stephen Bennett:

Hi, Drew. It's wonderful to be here.

Drew Radford:

Stephen, where do you farm and what do you farm?

Stephen Bennett:

We're based just out of Merbein, in north west Victoria. Merbein's about 15 kilometres away from Mildura in the Sunraysia region, and we are dried vine fruit growers, which is predominantly sultanas, but also we have some newer varieties like Sun Muscat, Sunglo and Carina Currants. The family's been doing it for quite a few years now. Since 1910, actually, so my brother and I are the fourth generation Bennetts to be here.

Drew Radford:

Four generations, Stephen, that's quite a legacy there, but I understand you didn't go straight onto the property. You disappeared and did an engineering degree. Why was that?

Stephen Bennett:

That's right. Growing up, my family was fairly interested in cars and mechanical things. My brother, who's a bit older than me, he was studying mechanical engineering, so I guess I wanted to follow that path as well. I remember when I was in primary school, I did a project on cars and the principal saw this project and he was fairly impressed, and asked me what I'd like to do, and I said, "Oh, I don't know. Maybe I'd like to be a mechanic or something," and he said, "Oh, I reckon you could try something else. You might even like studying engineering," and from that point on, I was pretty determined to get a degree in mechanical engineering, so I did. Then I got that and worked for about six years as an engineer before I decided that working and living in the city wasn't my cup of tea, so I was a bit keen to come back and have a go at being a dry fruit grower again.

Drew Radford:

Stephen, is the timing almost good for that, in some regards, because you've come back at a time where technology is really reaching deeply into the agricultural sector. It always has, but arguably more so in recent times.

Stephen Bennett:

Yeah. Timing is an interesting question. I remember when I was living in Melbourne, I came back one weekend and my brother showed me this new Shaw Swingarm Trellis system, and the penny really dropped for me then, that there was a fairly large scope opportunity for mechanisation and it was sort of right up my alley. From that point, I decided that I wanted to get back and then a property came up for sale next to the home property, so we bought that and I came back. But yeah, to your point, particularly in the last, I guess, five or 10 years, there's been a real revolution, I guess, in electronics, and automation, and robotics, and all this stuffs become quite available to novices like myself or people interested in that sort of technology to try and get involved, and have a go, and see what they can do on farm to try and lift their productivity and make life a bit easier. Yeah, it really is quite an exciting time to be in farming at the moment.

Drew Radford:

Stephen, you mentioned there the Shaw Trellis and how you saw the opportunity for mechanisation around that. For those that aren't familiar with it, what is the Shaw Trellis and what opportunity did it present for you?

Stephen Bennett:

Well, traditionally grapes were harvested by hand and then laid onto drying racks, and dried on the racks, and it was quite a labour-intensive process. Then, during the 1970s, we had some bad years with rain and that sped up the development of trellis drying, which is where, effectively, instead of harvesting the fruit first and then drying it, with trellis drying, we dry the fruit first on the trellis and then (machine) harvest it. But it was a way of salvaging fruit in very adverse weather conditions, because it stopped fruit from splitting and rotting, and causing damage to the fruit. But adapting trellis drying to systems that were designed for handpicking wasn't ideal, but Ivan Shaw, who was a grower in Merbein, quite a clever grower, and he has developed this swingarm system, where we basically grow canes along a continuous linear line along the row.

Stephen Bennett:

It makes the harvest process much more mechanised, and we can almost eliminate a lot of the labour that we used to use. It also means that we can mechanise the pruning as well, to a certain degree. We still need some labour with pruning, although the industry's developing ways to minimise that as well, but it really did mechanise both the harvest and the pruning of vines, which is, in our industry, quite important, because we're competing with imports. It's a very price sensitive industry, so we need to be as productive as we possibly can.

Stephen Bennett:

I think this year really came into its own as well, because with the labour shortages around due to COVID-19, I think we really would have struggled if we didn't have a system like the Shaw system where we could minimise our labour inputs as much as we possibly could, and still manage to dry and harvest the crop without too many difficulties.

Drew Radford:

Stephen, you mentioned there that labour has been a particular issue of late, because of the pandemic. What are you working on, technology wise, that may be of broad appeal?

Stephen Bennett:

One project that I've been working on for quite a while now, is an autonomous robot to try and drive around a vineyard by itself and spray weeds. It's been a long-term project, but I am getting there. I've got to the stage now where it can do about half a hectare by itself, driving up and down rows without hitting anything, which has been the main objective. I'm just working on sort of the mark two model now with bigger wheels and bigger motors, but I guess, it's bit of an experiment and it was part of this sort of revolution that I mentioned before, about this technology becoming more available, because I've had this sort of vision or dream for a long time. But in the last few years, the hardware and software has sort of become available off the shelf, so I'm using a computer that's designed to control a drone, and it's an open-source project, and the guys behind this project have also developed software that is designed for rovers, ground-based rovers.

Stephen Bennett:

I've pretty much just plugged this computer into a little machine that I've built myself and been able to start doing some testing and evaluation of it, to see if it's going to be worthwhile, and so far, it looks pretty promising. I also did have a little bit of assistance from Dried Fruits Australia who have some grants available for people who want to develop new ideas or new innovations. I was able to use some of that money to fund purchasing of the computer, although it's not particularly expensive in the grand scheme of things. Also, it uses a low cost RTK GPS technology, which is another handy technology that's become cheaper and more available.

Stephen Bennett:

Very similar to the systems that broad acre growers use for auto-steering and setting up their rows in a fairly highly precise way. But the system I got was only, I think it was about $800, but it can give me accuracy down to 20 millimetres, which in a vineyard, you need things to be fairly accurate, because it doesn't take too much to send it off course and hit a vine and stop. Although, my machine's not very big, so that it wouldn't do too much damage, but having this technology available in the last few years has been a great help for me, anyway.

Drew Radford:

Stephen, you said it's not particularly expensive, but it's a reasonable skillset, I imagine, to try and pull those bits together and actually make it happen, but then it goes on to becoming an early adopter. You often find yourself being a bit of a Guinea pig for this sort of thing and trying to adapt technology to your situation. Why does being an early adopter suit you and your business?

Stephen Bennett:

Part of it's just being curious about and creative about new technology and what it can do. That's, I guess, the main driver. Being an early adopter does have risks, and even though some of this stuff doesn't cost a real lot of money, it does cost a little bit in time learning how to use these things. You don't need to be a computer programmer or an expert to start using this stuff, but I have spent time on forums and on the internet trying to nut out problems that I've had. I've had some really good assistance from people all around the world, just from internet forums and things. If I've got a problem and there's not many people locally that are experienced with this stuff, but there's plenty of people in the communities online that are dealing with this. Usually they can solve my problems fairly quickly.

Stephen Bennett:

But being an early adopter, I guess you've got to be careful that you don't fall into any traps that nobody else has come across before, and you don't want to go down any wrong paths and do anything too seriously wrong, so you've got to sort of tread carefully when you're doing it, but the benefits certainly are worthwhile.

Drew Radford:

Well, Stephen, in terms of the benefits, I mean, bottom line is you're a primary producer and you're doing this on the side, so what's driving you to actually do this? Is this about increased efficiency on your property? Is that really the bottom line for this? Or is it a bigger vision for the industry?

Stephen Bennett:

I think a bit of both. In our business situation, we're, usually, fairly pushed for time. We don't have a huge turnover, so we try and minimise our labour as much as possible, but if I could get a rover that could go doing spraying for me, then straight away it's almost like I'm employing somebody to do that job, so it's going to free up my time to do things that are more productive and do things a bit more efficiently. When you do have labour shortages and shortage of skilled labour, automation and robotics, I think, is one way that's going to be a big help to try and solve those labour problems anyway.

Stephen Bennett:

I think going into the future, we're going to need people that are more skilled at operating these sort of systems, and I think that'll happen. I think, the next generation of kids that are coming through, they'll be quite familiar with computers, and I think it'll also attract more people into the industry, because they'll be more interested in playing with robots than digging holes with shovels, probably. Anyway, that's just my thoughts on that sort of labour issue.

Drew Radford:

The bottom line is, you're not afraid of technology. You're also a primary producer that depends upon irrigation licenses, so water is a valuable commodity for you. I understand you've been getting involved in technology there that can help you better deploy water, particularly IrriSAT. What's that, and how do you use it?

Stephen Bennett:

IrriSAT is an online tool for irrigation scheduling. It uses both satellite technology and local weather data to measure how much water a particular crop is using, and then you can use that to try and schedule how much water you need to apply to make up for the water that the plant's using. Now, I've found it a really useful tool and I use it almost daily just about, for irrigation scheduling. You can basically get a map of your own property, and it looks like a Google Earth map, and you can map out or put a boundary around each patch of vines, in our case. Then every week IrriSAT will update the data that it's getting from the satellites and also the weather data, and then you can predict how much water over the next week that that patch of vines is going to use.

Stephen Bennett:

Straight away, you can very easily use it for scheduling, and I use it quite a bit for benchmarking, so I can see what our neighbours are doing from that satellite data. You can even look at other industries around the world and see what their crops are doing, and you can compare that to your own. I guess, it's one of those traps that I mentioned before, that I learnt with IrriSAT, is that you do have to know what's actually going on, on the ground. You can have a patch of vines that looks really healthy, but it could actually be a patch of dead vines that's growing a lot of grass. Unless you actually know and can see what's happening on the ground, you can get a bit confused as to what's really happening, but if you're familiar with your own property and you know what patch is doing is what, it can be quite useful.

Stephen Bennett:

It's been really useful for me to understand crop water use, and what different varieties, how efficient their water use is. The effect of weeds on water use, and it really has sharpened my focus on weed control and also making sure we're putting on the right amount of water at the right time. I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean that you'll save water, because we want to try and maximise our yield as much as possible, but we don't want to waste water, I guess. Getting the best return per megalitre is the most important thing in our industry anyway.

Drew Radford:

Stephen, is this a case of combining it also with other water monitoring technology as well, such as probes. You mentioned there about knowing your patch very, very well, so are you looking to deploy other technology to say, "Well, this is exactly what's going on in this patch"?

Stephen Bennett:

We do have a set of capacitance probes in one patch, and that's part of a project that we're doing with Dried Fruits Australia to try and use data to maximise our yield. It's been good to compare what IrriSAT's saying with what the probes are saying. You sort of need two systems. I think with irrigation scheduling, you can't just rely on one particular system, because irrigation probes are very specific to that site, so they only sort of measure in a very small area, although you can... It should represent roughly what's going on within a patch, but with IrriSAT you can also get a good overall view of what's happening within the patch.

Stephen Bennett:

You can see the weak areas in the patch and the stronger areas in a patch, which doesn't necessarily show up with a probe. The data that you get out of probes is a lot more accurate than IrriSAT, and it's also, a lot more up to date than with IrriSAT, because with IrriSAT, even though you get updates about once a week, which is pretty good. You can't actually see what's happening when you irrigate, like you can with probes

Drew Radford:

Stephen, you're doing your own work in terms of automation on the property. What exciting things are you seeing coming over the horizon for the dried fruit industry in particular?

Stephen Bennett:

I think the industry's been doing a good lot of work in the mechanising of pruning, even though we can mechanise harvesting a lot, pruning's been our most labour-intensive activity. In the last couple of years, some local growers have been developing machinery to try and take away some of the detailed sort of pruning work we do with hand secateurs. I mean, overall just tidying up and minimising labour in pruning. I guess, in another area that I see is going to be a big advantage to the industry is field robotics. An example would be, there's a California company that's selling automated sprays and they've actually sold quite a few units to a local almond orchard company. Then I see this morning, they're going to sell a smaller version of that for vineyards, so I think automated or ground robotics and auto-steering in horticulture, they'll be not too far away, and they'll be a big advantage.

Stephen Bennett:

Particularly things like auto-steering. As I mentioned, we're trying to mechanise pruning as much as possible, but when you're driving down a row of vines and you're trying to steer the tractor straight, and you've also got to try and control a machine that's pruning the vines, if you can have a tractor that steers itself that would make that job a lot easier, I think. Even though we haven't been using things like auto-steer in horticulture a real lot up to date. I think, into the future, as we get more mechanised, I think those sort of things will be used more and more.

Drew Radford:

Stephen, you came back to the family farm with a degree in mechanical engineering, so you had some good foundation skills, but what have you done to continue updating your skill set, so you can do this sort of work?

Stephen Bennett:

Well, I've always been interested in computer-aided design, and I was lucky when I first started working as an engineer, one of my first jobs was to convert a drawing office from the drawing board to computer-aided design. I've been lucky to oversee some big changes in short periods of time, but I've continued that interest in computer aided design right up to now, and that software has become cheaper and more available too. I have done a little bit of design work sort of off the farm over the years. Not a real lot, but a little bit, and I also, do do a bit of machinery design just of my own. That's helpful for keeping my head around or feel involved in all the details of design, that sort of design work, but the latest computer aided design software, I'm a bit amazed about as well, because it's quite affordable now.

Stephen Bennett:

It really is cutting edge technology, whereas years ago you sort of had to be a multinational company to get some of this software, but now you can do three-dimensional computer-aided design, and you can also use that same software for some fairly advanced design analysis, which I'd sort of never had the chance to do, even when I was working as an engineer, but now I can keep myself up to date with that sort of stuff. Even little things like 3D printing. We bought a little 3D printer a while ago and that's been handy. Any designs that I do draw then I can quickly print them to see if they're going to fit and work, but it's funny, even though I sort of left the industry, I don't really feel like I've been left behind, because with so much information online, I can keep myself very much up to date with what's going on in both the engineering world and the farming world.

Drew Radford:

Stephen, it certainly sounds like you are keeping yourself up to date well and truly.

Drew Radford:

Stephen Bennett, the future certainly is looking bright for you in terms of being able to apply technology on your property, to gain advantages, and also share it with the rest of the industry. Thank you for taking the time and joining me in the AgVic Talk studio today.

Stephen Bennett:

No, thank you very much, Drew. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria. Authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Jason Fogg:

I think those people that are embracing the change and becoming safer and understanding that safety does have a place, are the people that have an operation that probably is a bit more efficient too.

Drew Radford:

That's the voice of Jason Fogg, and with that sort of perspective, many would assume he's either a farmer looking for a competitive edge, or maybe even a farm safety consultant. He's neither. He's a farmhand, one who particularly likes working on a property that puts his safety first. And that property is owned by another Jason, Jason Mellings.

Drew Radford:

Good day, I'm Drew Radford, and Jason Mellings has made safety, a fundamental aspect of his business culture and he joins me in the AgVic Talk studio. Thanks for your time.

Jason Mellings:

Pleasure.

Drew Radford:

Jason, Breaker Day, where is it and what do you farm?

Jason Mellings:

Breaker Day is halfway between Donald and Warracknabeal, approximately 88 kilometers north of Horsham. Yeah, look, the usual suspects, wheat, barley, canola, lentils, beans, a few sheep, but not many. But predominantly cropping.

Drew Radford:

Predominantly cropping, usual suspects, but you've got a little bit more going on there though, and we'll talk about the trucking in a moment. But, is farming in your blood?

Jason Mellings:

Yeah, I guess it is, Drew. I mean, my grandfather migrated from England, ended up at Warrak, just out of Nhill. And long story short, my father ended up at Carron, where we are now, and that happened in 1960. And we've been here ever since.

Drew Radford:

I want to talk to you a little bit about farm safety today, Jason. In regards to farming being in your blood and your granddad doing it and your dad doing it, I imagine the approaches they had to farm safety were quite different to what you have today and what you're also required to have today.

Jason Mellings:

I'll just use an example of when I first left school. I remember a lot of PTA shafts didn't have a guard, steel bins and silos didn't actually self-empty you had to get in with the augers going. I mean, some of the stuff we used to do, I look back now was pretty dodgy to say the least, but everyone did it. And everyone used to just take the risk and it got to the stage where things improved by default but everyone had one or two machines, was still pretty dodge. I guess we didn't employ as many people then. Employees weren't such a big part of the equation, unlike now. And I'll go a step further to say that, by default, as machinery got changed over as compared to 30 years ago, the guards and the safety equipment offers are actually pretty good.

Jason Mellings:

And I've used an example of, I remember, when I left school, we had our 1420 axial-flow International Harvester Company header and it had probably 10 guards on it, which all ended up in the back of the workshop by the end of the first harvest. And when we traded that machine in, the whole lot ended up back in the salesman's ute and I said, "There's all the guards there mate. Do what you want with them." So off he went, he put them back on, obviously compared to the header, we've got, now you just push a little clip on the side of the machine, the guards flop up out of your way and they're good. You can get in everything, they're dust free. When you finish doing what you've got to do is push the button and they just slide down again. And that's that. So by default, it's a lot better than it was.

Drew Radford:

You say it's a lot better than it was. And that sounds like it makes it very easy, and then it starts to, creep into the way you think about safety in regards to your business. Is that a main concern?

Jason Mellings:

Look, it is. To be brutally honest, part of the reason we were a bit, I guess you could say scared or fearful of safety, is because of litigation. Let's face it, if we aren't up to spec with WorkSafe and we have an incident within this business and we end up in court, we're in the hot seat, big time. So that alone is a big incentive to make sure we're up to speed, not to mention the obvious fact that we do want people to come home safe. You don't want family members with missing fingers or limbs or worse. So safety is paramount now, for sure.

Drew Radford:

Jason, you mentioned WorkSafe there. So why is maintaining good documentation an important part of running your business?

Jason Mellings:

There are a couple of ways of looking at that. In fact, I could talk about this for a while because, long story short, we now document all the maintenance goes on machines, right from a lawn mower, straight through to a tractor or a header or whatever it may be. And the reason for that is so we can go back and look when things were serviced, so we know where we are. The other thing is if we have an accident with a machine, WorkSafe comes on the site and says, "Is this machine safe? Has it been well-maintained?" We can say, "Yes, it is because it's all written down on paper." So that's number one. Number two is we have a bit of a quick accreditation or a bit of an instruction on how machines operate and how to use them. And we sign off to say that I'm satisfied the way guys use them.

Jason Mellings:

So if something happens and WorkSafe says, "Did the guy know what he's doing?" Well, yes he does because it's all written up in documentation. So that covers that base. The other thing is we have a lot of issues with guys on phones, guys that want to drink alcohol in the cabins after a certain time of the day, guys throw rubbish around the yard, guys don't want to keep the cabins clean, they won't wash the windows, et cetera. So it comes into workplace culture as well as work safety.

Jason Mellings:

So that's all written up in a document and we get into harvest, for example, and I've got a backpacker who is not obeying by the rules, or my culture of this farm, I can say, "Hey mate, a week ago, you signed up to say that you weren't going to sit on your phone all day, looking at Facebook. You're going to keep the cabins clean. You signed for it, you know where you stand, so clean it up and sort that stuff out.” And from my point of view, if they don't and there might be two or three things like that, that aren't happening with a particular employee, basically they’re gone. They're, looking for a bus ticket out of here. That's where we stand on documentation.

Drew Radford:

Jason, it sounds like those two things though, are very much hand in glove, workplace culture and documentation. So if one's right, is the other one right?

Jason Mellings:

Exactly right. Yes.

Drew Radford:

Jason, there's a lot to get your head around though. In regards to the actual legal requirements, is that something that you are assisted by getting a consultant on the farm and then also running it? There's a lot of apps around now as well.

Jason Mellings:

Look there is. From my point of view, what we've done is I got John who is employed by VFF at the moment he was really good. He came on for half a day. We went through all the documentation. He gave me a USB stick with all the information, heaps of it, forms and documentation we can actually fill out. So it's all sitting there in front of you, had a quick inspection and went through all that.

Jason Mellings:

And that was really good, but what I've done because I'm rather time poor, I've got a consultant or a friend of mine out of Horsham who is all over this stuff. She came on-farm. We sat around the table with all the employees, went through all the documentation, which she had organised before she got there. We signed up, she went through everything, explained what was required, what was expected. And by the time she left, it was all said and done and she files it away on a computer. Easy, that's how I've done it.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like a very organised and sensible approach to actually take with it. But it's an ongoing thing. Isn't it? I assume it's not just a one-off meeting.

Jason Mellings:

It's not, it just keeps evolving. You make a start and you can't do it all in one hit. That's what John said,"Make a start." There are a few things around the farm we had to improve on. For example, we needed some bollards around a couple of chemical loading areas, fuel tanks etc., more signage and a few more first aid kits. He said, "Just get it done over at month or two," which we did. Documentation, just do it in a gradual process because I mean, it is a fair bit of time. So just over 12 months, you just make it happen. It doesn't take long to get most things where they should be and a lot of the stuff with WorkSafe, it is just efficiency and being probably neat and tidy, and it actually adds value to your operation at the same time.

Jason Mellings:

For example, if I want to look back when the blades on that lawnmower were fixed or a new battery went in the Ute or whatever it may be. I can actually look back in the documentation I've already got done and see when that was. It's good for that way. We've actually upgraded our chemical loading facilities, so we got a chem shed with an evaporation pond and a concrete slab to load on. It cost us a few bucks, but it's just been a big improvement to the operation of spraying in a lot of ways, itactually improves the efficiency of the business. So it's not all bad, is what I'm trying to say.

Drew Radford:

Jason, some people say, its too expensive to have the latest safety gear and update all the time. For you though, it seems like a carefully-thought-out business decision and money well-spent.

Jason Mellings:

I agree. And I mean, it's amazing how many people... it's a bit of a misconception out there that it is a cost and it is time. Maybe you could look at it that way. But as I said to a guy the other day, "They run a good show. I said guys, what if you have a problem on that farm? And I mean, all your gear is good. You are safe. I'll look at you over the fence. You run a good operation, but things do happen. And you've got probably three or four guys working for you. You have an issue and you end up in the hot seat in court, where do you stand? You know, for the sake of a day every couple of months to get this sorted out wouldn't you just go and do it?"

Drew Radford:

As part of your operation, you also run trucks and they're doing distance and obviously have busy times as well on your property, such as harvest or sowing. And around those times, fatigue management comes into play. How do you approach that?

Jason Mellings:

Yeah, good question. With the fatigue thing, I've been here since basically when I left school within reason, and I know how hard I can go. And so I'll get a bit of a gauge on how hard the other guys can go as well. So with the trucks, because they're all pretty much monitored by a log book, so they might jump in a truck in the morning, head to Ballarat or Melbourne, wherever it may be. And I know when they get back, we've got a load and get ready for the next day. So I'll say, "Right fellas, you might as well knock off. It might be four o'clock in the afternoon, but you've been gone since six, so you've done your day. Go and have a rest and jump in again tomorrow." So that's how the trucks run.

Jason Mellings:

Harvest and cropping is a bit of a different story. An issue I do get and I'm not trying to put the mozz on backpackers, but a lot of those guys are the worst because all they want to do as many hours as they can, in as short a time as they can. So they get as much money as they can and move on. Well, I say to them "Guys, you've been on that machine for 16, 17 hours. You cannot run it efficiently. It's not safe. You're out of there," and look, I've had a few arguments with them, not just backpackers, but others as well. 'So right, you're off.'

Jason Mellings:

If we've got enough staff, everyone knocks off for lunch, which sounds like a bit of a luxury, but that does happen. I might just say, 'Look, go home for lunch, have an hour off. Someone else will drive it or I'll drive it.' And same with dinner time at night, or, you know, if it's been a long time, just go home, have two hours off and jump back on at eight o'clock at night, stuff like that. So I'm pretty hot on the fatigue side of it. It is easy just to leave guys there, but it's not efficient and it doesn't work. And let's face it, if they get fatigued and put a header front into an SCC pole, it's no fun. Although insurance can get you a new one, you're not going to be get one in the middle of harvest. These machines have to be treated with a lot of respect.

Drew Radford:

Jason, you mentioned earlier about the culture that you have on the farm. I assume with these conversations, you've got to lead by example as well, wouldn't you?

Jason Mellings:

I do, exactly right. Whether we like it or not, guys like me, we're farmers. We're not trained to be employers, but whether we like it or not, we are. We have to lead by example. We have to set the rules, to the point we have to sort out arguments amongst employees. The list goes on. We have to be a boss. We have to be a leader. Simple as that.

Drew Radford:

You make a really good point there though, Jason. You know, your primary reason for being, is to be a primary producer, but suddenly you become a manager and you're trying to manage people. And I imagine at times, you're just standing there going, "I never expected to have some of these difficult conversations." How have you gone about developing some of those skills?

Jason Mellings:

I guess, because I've always haven't been on the farm, I was a mechanic for a few years when I first left school. I know what it's like to work for a boss and work with a group of guys. And I know how I want the boss to treat me, I know what it's like to work with other employees. So nowadays I've probably drawn on that experience quite a lot in the situation now, but this industry's no different to a trucking business or a building crew where a guy started off with a hammer and a set of nails and built houses on his own. All of a sudden he's got 20 blokes under. He's had to evolve into being a leader and a boss. It's the same thing really.

Drew Radford:

That's Jason Mellings, owner of Breaker Day. So how does that workplace culture translate on a daily basis? Jason Fogg has been working on the property for nearly a year. However, he's come to farming from a range of backgrounds. One of which is very safety focused.

Jason Fogg:

I am a commercial helicopter pilot, so there are similarities between the two. Obviously processes and protocols that we use in the cockpit, are similar to the machinery that we use in here. I mean, it is big, it's dangerous when you don't operate it properly.

Drew Radford:

And you end up going from helicopters to working on a farm. I understand there was a logistics stint in between.

Jason Fogg:

Well COVID has seen a great change in my variety of work, but I was on a Facebook page that was Pilots For Harvest, and I'd always wanted to do something like this. And I just sent a message out. Next thing you know, my phone rang, it was Jason Mellings and he said, "I've got a job doing harvest," and I said, "Well, I'll come down." And next thing you know, two days later I was sitting in a case header doing... stripping wheat, I think it was, my first gig.

Drew Radford:

Jason, you sort of touched on it, but what are the similarities and differences between machinery safety as a pilot and also agricultural machinery?

Jason Fogg:

I think they're really similar in the fact that you have got a piece of machinery underneath you, that if used wrong can bite you. And so in the cockpit, we have a variety of checklists or protocols and processes that were used to get things either started or underway. And similarly, when you're taking the boom out, let's say, throttle down, extend the arms, make sure it's clear, all those sorts of things. So you're going through a little checklist in your head, as you do the same sort of things I would do in a cockpit of the helicopter when I'm about to take off. Temperatures and pressures are all good, my surroundings are all clear, it's clear to take off and then I look at my gauges, look outside and then off we go. So it's all very similar, really.

Drew Radford:

There is obviously becoming more and more of a legal requirement for workplaces to have this sort of detail in place, but in a place like a farm as well, where you do have new workers coming and going, does it help in terms of that training and implementation as well?

Jason Fogg:

Yeah, massively. Making sure that there's a clear understanding for the people that are operating machinery... There was a young guy that was here I guess complacency, because he hasn't seen the worst of what can happen when you're not concentrating can set in. So if you've got a set of guidelines for these people to follow, then it's easy to refer back to them. So when they come in and you go, "Okay, you're going to be on the chaser bin. Here's what I need you to do," and if you can do a run through with them, then that's their safe working method statement basically. And then you can also have it in writing for them before you go out and do it. But you'd, much the same as it is learning to fly, you do your theory first, and then you go out into the cockpit and you put it into practice.

Drew Radford:

Jason, I imagine this translates a little bit in terms of the culture of the place and how it's actually running. And does that affect your ability to work in a safe way if that's all positive and in place?

Jason Fogg:

Yeah, it is. I guess I’m lucky in the fact that my age and maturity I've been around and seen a few different things and so I would speak up. But I could totally understand that there would be some operators that have always done it a way for a hundred years and they just keep ticking over that way and they don't want to see change. And that's the people that I would expect have the problems with safety and do have the issues and the accidents, because it doesn't take much for an accident to happen. But I think those people that are embracing the change and becoming safer and understanding that safety does have a place, are the people that have an operation that probably is a bit more efficient too.

Drew Radford:

Well, it translates into a business imperative, doesn't it?

Jason Fogg:

Absolutely. If you're running something and there's stuff everywhere and you're stepping over things to get to something else and it's just really unsafe, uncontrolled and not well thought out, the proof is in the pudding really, isn't it?

Drew Radford:

Well, it sounds like it makes you far happier as an employee to be working in a place which does have those things in place.

Jason Fogg:

Absolutely. I wouldn't have come back if it was just a gig at a place where it was pretty ad hoc and just throwing in here and just do this and make that up as you go. I've come back because I liked a bit of structure and I liked the way that things have progressed here. But I also like the ethos because you're allowed to speak up here. You're encouraged to speak up. If you don't think something's safe, say something.

Drew Radford:

Jason, you go through busy periods on a farm, such as harvest. How important is it to have a clear head and to be able to focus? And how does that change if you are rushed in those busy periods?

Jason Fogg:

I think that's probably the most important part, especially during times of harvest and those sorts of things where it's all on. Everyone knows it's busy, it's long days and long nights. If you aren't being honest with yourself and understanding that you are maybe tired, you're not focused, you know that something's going to go wrong and you could injure yourself or someone else by saying, 'Hey, I'm buggered', or understanding that you need to have regular breaks. Safety doesn't take a holiday. Nothing more has been clearer to me than doing a harvest with the long hours, and you think, it's the next day that you get up and you try and operate something that you really not clear on it. And you think I've got to stop. I've got to go and take a break or I've got to do something else because you take a shortcut and that's the thing that'll hurt you.

Drew Radford:

Jason, I understand. You've also been working on another safety initiative in regards to trying to make the property COVID safe, which is probably something a lot of primary producers haven't actually thought about.

Jason Fogg:

Yeah. Putting a little program into place and it doesn't take much, but putting it into place because these are isolated properties. And a lot of them don't see a lot of people, but still having a system in place allows you to keep COVID out. You can have multiple workers coming across your business either at cropping time or at harvest time, so you need to know who they are and where they've come from and the potential dangers. So we've got QR codes here and just a regular little protocol list of what you need to do when you first arrive on the site.

Drew Radford:

Jason Fogg, thank you very much for joining me in the AgVic Talk studio today.

Jason Fogg:

Drew, it's been a real pleasure.

Speaker 1:

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All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk. Keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Climate change. The issue is literally global, but for farmers who work at a local level, it's often difficult to see how you can make any real difference. G’day, I'm Drew Radford and my guest in the AgVic Talk studio, Nick Blandford, pondered that as well. Indeed, it was part of the reason for him turning to farming after years of working in climate-related policy and scientific research. G’day, Nick.

Nick Blandford:

Good day, Drew. How are you?

Drew Radford:

I'm great, Nick. Nick, whereabouts do you farm?

Nick Blandford:

So I work on my family farm in Meerlieu, which is on the western edge of East Gippsland on the edge of Lake Wellington.

Drew Radford:

And what do you farm there, Nick?

Nick Blandford:

We run a self-replacing Merino flock on about 1400 hectares. I grew up on the property after leaving for uni and then working in other agricultural industries, came back to work there in about 2016. So this is my sixth year on the farm.

Drew Radford:

Sixth year on the farm, but you said it's a family property. Has farming been in the family for a long time?

Nick Blandford:

Yep. So I think I'm the fourth generation that's worked on this farm.

Drew Radford:

Wow. Fourth generation. So you're seeing a lot of changes then in that time, I'd imagine.

Nick Blandford:

Yeah. Yeah. So when they first got there, I think there was a lot of rabbits and bracken fern and a lot of improvements made, but yeah, it's sort of gone through a lot of different cycles.

Drew Radford:

And Nick, you said you went off to uni. What did you study at uni?

Nick Blandford:

So I studied Ag Science at uni.

Drew Radford:

So ag was always going to be your final destination?

Nick Blandford:

Yeah, I think so. I think I was always intending to come back to the farm, but there wasn't that sort of opportunity when I first finished uni. So I went and did a couple of other things in between, but yeah, the intention always was to come back and give farming a go.

Drew Radford:

And what did you do in between?

Nick Blandford:

So I worked in rural services for a little while and then worked in some agricultural research for a little while as well.

Drew Radford:

So if you've been working in agricultural research for a while and also uni studies, is that where you started to become a little bit more aware of climate variability and changes that were occurring?

Nick Blandford:

Yeah, I think I was aware of the issues of climate change through school. I think my awareness really grew when I was at university though. I completed an honours project investigating the potential increasing photosynthetic capacity of cereal crops under elevated carbon dioxide concentrations. And then later in my career, when I worked in research, I worked as a technician at the CSIRO and that was investigating the response of different traits of wheat to climate induced stress such as declining rainfall and increased temperatures. And this made me much more aware of the need to adapt our production system to climate change, but also research needed to fit the context of our Australian production systems.

Drew Radford:

Nick, that is much more than just a passing interest. That's really cutting-edge involvement and obviously, understanding in the process.

Nick Blandford:

Yeah, I think I've always been reasonably engaged with it, but to have a bit more of an understanding was really good. I think after I moved back to the farm, I probably sort of wasn't quite as aware of the impacts on our farming systems. The first season was pretty good. We had reasonable rainfall, but then after those first couple of seasons, we had a pretty significant drought in East Gippsland and I could really see the negative impacts on our business.

Nick Blandford:

And so after that, I was a little bit worried about the impacts of animal agriculture and climate change. And I thought this is something that's going to be a major issue and particularly as a young farmer and I would need to sort of take some responsibility for taking action. And from that, I was also lucky enough to participate in the Climate Smart Fellowship run by the Farmers for Climate Action. And in that program, we got to sort of stand in front of some really exceptional people like Mark Howden from the ANU and Sarah Barker from MinterEllison, and really talk about the science behind climate change and also the policies and how they impact that.

Drew Radford:

Nick, that's a very broad scope. Obviously, you got a personal consideration here in terms of how the farm's operating, but then you involved at the policy level. So let's just take one step back then. You mentioned you ran into a drought when you first came back to the farm. That was a reasonable drought too though, wasn't it? It was a few years.

Nick Blandford:

I think we were always hoping that it wasn't going to last that long, but it just sort of kept rolling on. And we sort of had that really low rainfall across those three years from 2017, 18, 19. And it was a pretty challenging time in terms of maintaining ground cover and those sort of soil health considerations, but also finding enough cashflow to be able to afford to maintain your feeding regimes, to keep the sort of stock in good condition.

Drew Radford:

Then Nick you talked there about the scholarship that you got and how you've been working also around the policy edges. How is that starting to feature back on your property in terms of what actions you're taking?

Nick Blandford:

Yeah, that's a huge challenge and probably it hasn't been the biggest driver of our decision making on farm, but something that sort of aligns with other sustainability and productivity practices. So that includes high productivity to reduce the impacts of each product that we sell in terms of its carbon, like diluting the amount of greenhouse gases emission for those things as well as things like breeding resilient sheep to withstand our climate. We have also really targeted improving our soil health. And we're participating in some local projects like Top Soils project, which really focuses on that area. We're also participating in a multi-species cover cropping demonstration project with our local Landcare group. And that was funded through our Smart Farm Small Grants initiative. More personally, I felt like the decisions being made in policy didn't really align with my views and I needed to develop some skills and take some opportunities to advocate for climate action and the development of a sustainable agricultural industry.

Nick Blandford:

So that's included things like joining the Young Farmers Advisory Council, participating in the Gippsland Community Leadership Program this year, as well as the AgVic Young Farmers Mentor Program. I've have also found that joining various industry and community groups was really valuable in planning for the future. So things like the Farmers for Climate Action and our local Landcare group. I'm involved with the East Gippsland Climate Action Network and the Young Farmers Best Wool Best Lamb group, and these have been a great resource to share information and concerns about climate change.

Drew Radford:

I'm particularly interested in that part of it. So it's like actually getting out and talking to your fellow farmers and working on... Well, as you talk about a whole lot of trials to better set yourself up for the future. Is that a simplistic interpretation a lot of what you're doing there?

Nick Blandford:

Oh, no, I don't think so. I think it's part of the challenge is really knowing actually what steps to take to really kind of get involved with the action. And so for me, that's been things that I felt like I could have agency over the decisions in my impact on climate change. So being involved with these groups, really getting involved with the communities and sort of talking about what options there are and because it can be quite a challenge to actually know what to do and what steps to take.

Drew Radford:

I imagine it's a long road that you're embarking upon. Do you feel like you're starting to gain traction?

Nick Blandford:

I think so. Absolutely. I think sort of organisations like Farmers for Climate Action have been really successful in sort of pushing responsible action on farms and going to leaders in our governments and making sure they're aware of what things that farmers really want to see happen. And I think we've seen some really good outcomes from that.

Drew Radford:

Nick, recently the Victorian Government released its Climate Change Strategy, which includes an Agricultural Sector Pledge. As a farmer, what's that mean to you?

Nick Blandford:

I think the challenge we've got is I think we have a really good understanding of where agriculture sits as an industry and its impact on our climate change. And I think in that report, there was 17 per cent of Victoria's greenhouse gas emissions coming from agriculture. I think the challenge we have is we don't have a really good understanding at the individual farm level and the adage goes, if you can't measure it, you can't manage it. And so we're often challenged as an industry with a spectrum of information about what our impacts are from papers stating that animal agriculture is responsible for 80 per cent of all greenhouse gas emissions. Sort of the alternative is that it's part of a biogenic cycle of carbon and therefore there's no animal impact. I think we have to be really careful drawing the focus too narrowly and where there can be positive associations like Greta Thunberg pictured on the cover of Logan's Scandinavia dressed in wool is really great, but I think we've got to be careful that we don't get too narrowly focused on things like that and look at the whole farm.

Nick Blandford:

And that's where I think the things like the emissions calculator that Richard Eckard put out from Melbourne Uni was really valuable, but the particular part of the emissions pledge that I'm really looking forward to is the 250 on farm action plans that have been announced. And I think that's from the State Government. I think that's going to be really important and it'll give us the idea of where the emissions are coming from and the strategies we can take to really mitigate those effects. And I think that's going to be really important for the context of our farming systems and vital to sort of reaching those climate targets and getting to net zero by 2050.

Drew Radford:

For those that are unfamiliar with that particular project, can you just outline that a little bit further so people can understand what's being done?

Nick Blandford:

So basically, there'll be 250 farms selected across Victoria that will have a full kind of audit of where their emissions come from and really drill down to specific actions they can take and receive funding to really work on mitigating those effects and look to try and really get to those positions where we can get farms that are carbon neutral.

Drew Radford:

Nick, that plays into the point that you made earlier of if you can't measure it, then it's hard to act upon. So this is really about quantifying that.

Nick Blandford:

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's one of the challenges. We really need to have the trust in the information that we're putting out particularly as we go to the markets when we say we have reduced our carbon emissions, we can actually prove that and those calculators are really good, but I think it's going to be really important that we actually can do it in the context of our farming systems.

Drew Radford:

Nick, what do you see as some of the challenges of actually taking practical action?

Nick Blandford:

I think the real big challenge is actually knowing what to do and where those challenges are really going to come from. So I think it's really important as individuals that we stay on top of the information and understand what options we have and opportunities we have to really reduce our carbon emissions. And that's really difficult to do sometimes in the context of we're still running our businesses in a climate that is changing and we have to always be adapting. So to be able to do both at the same time is quite difficult, but it's really important that we continue doing it. So we can't just merely adapt to the system while still having an effect on climate change. We need to do both, but yeah, it's very difficult to just start to mitigate our climate effects without having that adaptation as well.

Drew Radford:

Nick, you've got a forensic knowledge about this area and also a great deal of passion. Have you gone getting even your own family on board with some of this?

Nick Blandford:

I think in terms of my own family, generally, it's been pretty good. I think they can all understand that there's some challenges with climate change. In terms of my local community, there can be challenges talking to people. But I think that's where it's really important to kind of find that safe space and connect as a community and with different people that really will support you in your feelings about climate change.

Drew Radford:

That's a really interesting tactic. And so you're sort of saying, well, you can't just address this from one particular area. It can't be just policy raining down on us. I need to be talking to my fellow producers and explaining my insight and also trying to understand where they're coming from as well. That's kind of what I'm hearing from you.

Nick Blandford:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think we've got to be careful as agriculture that we don't get too insular as well. And that's why I think looking for organisations like me being involved with my local Climate Action Network, there are people in that that don't necessarily agree with my views that animal agriculture is something that can be sustainable, and it's really important that we don't move away and not listen to those arguments and understand where they're coming from. It's really important that we sort of, don't turn yourself off from everyone. It's really important that you kind of come together and find that common ground.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like you were doing a lot of work to try and find that common ground. There's a lot of groups that you're involved with. It sounds so much like your balancing almost as much time on the farm as off the farm dealing with this.

Nick Blandford:

Yeah. And absolutely that can be a really big challenge not overburdening yourself and not taking on too much. And that's why I think it's really important to work as a community together so that that isn't just up to individuals and a few people to really bring this cause forward that there are more people that are willing to stand up and say, no, we need to do work on this.

Drew Radford:

Nick, what advice would you give to other young farmers who are interested in learning more, but don't know where to start?

Nick Blandford:

My advice would be that it's really important to sort of keep up to date with the opportunities to reduce our climate impacts. So we can keep learning how to do this. And that's sort of really important that we really work into that safe space so that we can have those conversations. Often in agriculture, we can get into these double binds where we're not sure what action to take and whether that's enough, but also what the impacts will be on our lifestyle and our businesses. And often we can kind of become overwhelmed with that and think it's too hard and disengage, or really get angry, particularly, when things like animal agriculture are demonised as being this terrible for the climate.

Nick Blandford:

I think the really important thing is to tune in and connect with those groups. So organisations, you’re your local Climate Action Networks and something like the Farmers for Climate Action is really good. I also think it's really important to tune in with ourselves and be kind to ourselves and not overburden ourselves with feeling like we're not doing enough, but I also think one of the things you don't do well on a farm is really tuning with our environment and appreciate the beauty of the farms that we work on each day.

Drew Radford:

Nick you're a dad. You've got a couple of young children. You've always been engaged in this area of climate impact. Did becoming a father change your focus at all?

Nick Blandford:

Yeah, I think it did. I think it really sort of drove home to me that the actions that I take now are really going to have an impact on my kids' future and that it was something that I really needed to take a bit of responsibility for and that personal responsibility to make sure that I was doing as much as I could to make sure that my kids did have a future.

Drew Radford:

Nick Blandford, you're involved in an incredible amount in terms of trying to mitigate the impacts of climate change. Thank you for taking time to talk to me in the AgVic Talk studio about them.

Nick Blandford:

Thanks, Drew. Thanks for the opportunity to speak with you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback. So please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Becoming an employer for the first time is a daunting process. Finding the right person is stressful enough, but then there's so much else to consider. Everything from pay rates right through to workplace legislation. The good news for young farmers is they don't have to tread this path alone, or indeed pretty much anything to do with farming. G'day, I'm Drew Radford, and the young farmer and new entrant mentoring program, helps by providing insight to producers early on in their career. Someone who's embraced it is, Samantha Mitchell. And Sammy, joins me in the AgVic Talk Studio. Thanks for your time.

Samantha Mitchell:

No worries at all.

Drew Radford:

Sammy, where do you farm and what do you farm?

Samantha Mitchell:

I farm north of Birchip in a small area called Watchupga, and we farm cereals. So wheat, barley, and we do canola, lentils, and then we do some vetch for hay and sheep. We have roughly 500 Merino ewes, and that keeps us busy on the off cropping times.

Drew Radford:

Sammy, you said that, we. This is a family property, is it? And you've returned to it?

Samantha Mitchell:

Yes. So it's my dad's, and we've been here for quite a few generations, I'm not sure exactly how many. And I moved back nine years ago now, full time.

Drew Radford:

So Sammy, you moved back. You had another career in between though, did you?

Samantha Mitchell:

Yeah, I did a bit of everything. I was a bit lost, I think. I got into teaching and I decided to have a gap year, which I'm glad I did now looking back because it made me realise I would not be a good teacher and yeah, it just doesn't interest me at all. But I studied sustainable ag and I studied remedial massage and I'm not sure why I did that now. But yeah, I did that for a few years in Bendigo before getting sick of that and realising my real passion was on the farm. Even though when I left school, I didn't think I could do it at the time, but I've always been on the farm part-time so I've always done harvest since I was 16 years old. I've always stopped work, come to the farm and live at the farm for a few months to get harvest done for dad, but full-time nine years ago.

Drew Radford:

So Sammy, you said at school and just after you didn't think you could do it, why was that?

Samantha Mitchell:

Well, there wasn't many females around farming that I knew of. And also I just thought you had to be strong...mainly the strong element. I don't know why that bothered me so much, but I just felt like I wasn't strong enough to be a farmer. But yeah, how wrong I was. Definitely these days with machinery and everything, you just make the machinery do everything for you.

Drew Radford:

Sammy, you've overcome all of that and quite well obviously, you've been there for nine years and you're pretty much running the show now, aren't you? Your dad's not there as much?

Samantha Mitchell:

Yeah. So dad bought a property down at Heathcote, four years ago now, and dad's been down there practically full-time and just comes up here a couple of days a month, and jumps on the truck and just carts a little bit of grain. But if I'm super busy, like when I was marking lambs or something, he'd come for a couple of days, but we've gone through a bit of a transition. We started a couple years ago, but yeah, it's really taken into place this year.

Drew Radford:

So what's helping you with that transition? I understand you've got involved with the Young Farmer and New Entrant Mentoring program. What's involved with that for you.

Samantha Mitchell:

So I decided to apply for the Young Farmer mentoringship, because definitely with the transition I knew I was going to come up with quite a few challenges and being young and I've felt like I've got the farming all under control, but the business side of things I felt like I could definitely improve on. So I applied for that thinking it'd be more business minded, but as the year has progressed, I've realised I can't do this all on my own, so I need to employ someone. So we've been really focusing on that in our little group and it's been really, really good because I have no idea about anything about employing someone and yeah, the process and everything like that. So it's been really, really worthwhile.

Drew Radford:

So Sammy, there's two sides to that, I'm hearing. One is obviously the logistics side, the procedures or the bureaucracy of actually paperwork and everything to get a person on board. But then there's actual reality of managing a person.

Samantha Mitchell:

Yep. I barely can manage myself sometimes, so a person is another little challenge. And I'm teamed up with Andrew Bell, and he's always had someone working with him for a fair while now. So he gave me heaps of knowledge about his experiences, and I feel like that's the best way to learn is from other people's experiences and their mistakes and successes.

Drew Radford:

So how has this helped increase your confidence in terms of taking on an employee?

Samantha Mitchell:

Hugely. I've literally had no idea where to start, Andrew has talked me through the whole process and even coming up with an ad and it was really nice. I typed up a rough ad and then sent it to them for them to look at and say anything that was wrong with it. But a heap more confident because I couldn't do it by myself.

Drew Radford:

So have you put the ad out yet?

Samantha Mitchell:

Yeah, I have. A week and a half ago I think it was.

Drew Radford:

And how's that going?

Samantha Mitchell:

Yeah. Good. I've got a few really good candidates and then you get a whole lot of interesting ones too.

Drew Radford:

And is Andrew helping you sort the wheat from the chaff and develop a strategy to try and choose someone or interview somebody?

Samantha Mitchell:

Not yet. I'm hoping we're going to have another meeting in the next week or two. I think that's the plan. And I feel like I'm capable of seeing the differences, but the interview process and selection, I'll definitely be quizzing them over the next couple of weeks about it. Because I feel like it's important to ask the right questions.

Drew Radford:

From what I understand, Andrew's going to be mirroring your process because his family properties had someone working there for 40 years, who's retiring soon, so he's got to do the same. So possibly he's going to be learning along with you.

Samantha Mitchell:

Yeah, that is quite funny when he said that, so it's good to learn from each other I think.

Drew Radford:

The mentoring program with Andrew, have you focused purely on employment, or has it broaden out to general discussions about running your farm and the future of your farm?

Samantha Mitchell:

Definitely at the start, it was very broad and because when I applied, I had five or six different things I've thought of that I needed help mentoring with. So yeah, we were very broad. Even buying land versus leasing land and budgeting. And even with the sheep, I'd like to do more sheep. We talked about that and Andrew is very much in the sheep game. So at the start we were talking about everything and it's quite interesting because yeah, you get on tangents and you learn different aspects of the business and yeah, it's quite good, but I think we've just narrowed it down. Because I'm in this process at the moment, but I'm definitely keen to talk about sheep and cropping and land.

Drew Radford:

Sammy, at this point, what do you think the main thing is you've got out of the mentoring program?

Samantha Mitchell:

The relationship's been really good and having someone that's very experienced on hand to ask questions, and that's been really, really handy. Learning about the employment game has been massive for me because me and my dad have not really employed many people over the years. We've employed someone for harvest, but not a full-time employee or anything, so I've gained a lot of experience from that. But yeah, the relationship's been really, really good and beneficial.

Drew Radford:

Sammy, the unusual thing about this mentoring relationship that you've got with Andrew is because of the current times with COVID, I understand you haven't actually been able to meet face to face yet.

Samantha Mitchell:

No, unfortunately not. That would be one of the downsides so far, it's just the way the world is at the moment. But Zoom has been really, really good, like you still see but yeah, there's nothing that can compare to face-to-face and the interaction you get with meeting someone face-to-face and talking to them. So hopefully even if it has to be next year or something meet up one time, which would be really good.

Drew Radford:

Sammy Mitchell mentioned a mentor she's working with is Andrew Bell. Heavy rain on his property near Horsham, drove Andrew indoors and gave me a chance to speak with him about his role in the program and his farming background.

Andrew Bell:

Oh, we're very much a mixed farming business here Drew, probably too many things at times I think, but look our main source of income is from meat and wool from sheep. We run a mixed flock of Merino ewes self-replacing, and also a large mob of first cross ewes for prime lamb production. As well as a cattle operation and also meat goats for the meat trade, which is becoming more popular in the last five to ten years. And also a wide range of crops from cereals, oil seeds, lupins, and also small seed production for clover seed and hay production as well. So it's very mixed and there's a, there always seems to be something going on around the place, there's not too many dull moments.

Drew Radford:

Andrew that's quite a mixture. It sounds like a reasonable patch of land?

Andrew Bell:

Yeah. Look, it's been a long-term family farm I guess, Drew where I'm currently the fourth generation to farm here at Mockinya, and my father still active in the farm. He's retired now into Horsham, but he's still out here anywhere between one and sort of three or four days a week helping with odd jobs and shifting sheep and that sort of thing; and, my son, who's nearly 19, he's looking to come back to the farm at some stage to keep the whole operation moving along smoothly. So, we've been here since late 1800s on this property anyway.

Drew Radford:

Andrew, how did you get involved with the Young Farmer and New Entrant Mentoring program, and how'd you even hear about them?

Andrew Bell:

I'd done some work Drew with a company in Bendigo and they approached me earlier on this year to see whether I'd be interested in being a mentor for a young farming person. And I more or less just jumped at the chance because I've been lucky enough to have a couple of mentors in my life, including my father. So that was made it a very simple idea, and to get through and to get going sounded like a great thing to me.

Drew Radford:

So it doesn't sound like there was a lot of arm twisting involved, you just were happy to get involved. I mean, is there a motivation beyond that?

Andrew Bell:

Well, I just think that we're always hearing about the lack of younger people in agriculture and maybe they're turning away from it in some way or another. Farming can be very tough, but the young guys and girls that are getting involved in it at an early age, I think now are starting to see some of the monetary rewards too, which can come in and perhaps they've been lacking in the last generation as well, especially with the wool. So it's just encouraging for the young people to get into it and have a bit of a go.

Drew Radford:

Andrew you're involved with Samantha in terms of a Mentoring program. And one of the things that Samantha is looking for is some guidance in dealing with employees, how many staff do you employ and what do you think some of the things that you've done that have resulted in successful long-term employee, employer relationships?

Andrew Bell:

Well Drew, we've been very fortunate here that we've had one full-time staff member now for over 40 years. So he's actually made his whole life's work, working on this property firstly for dad, and then he was able to successfully merge across, to work for myself and my wife. And it's very rewarding in the fact that we can go away for a short period of time or a holiday and let our full-time employee basically run the business without having to worry too much about what's going on. And having that long-term relationship has certainly made it easier for the day-to-day running of the property, but like everyone, you've got to work on it and we seem to be able to get along well.

Andrew Bell:

We meet regularly and we also meet with the employee’s family and that as well, so we can get an idea from them as to their future directions. And it won't be very long before the fellow will be looking towards retirement and we'll be in the position of having to source perhaps another full-time worker, which will be similar to what Samantha's going through now, trying to place ads in papers and media to try and select and find the right person for the job.

Drew Radford:

Andrew, it's not far down the track then that you're going to go through a similar process to Sammy in terms of employing somebody coming onto the property. But what do you think things young farmers should know when employing staff, other than telling them to find a job indoors when it's bucketing down like it is at the moment at your place. But what are some of the things that they should probably know?

Andrew Bell:

I think the most important thing is you've got to see the staff member as another person who is wanting to work on the property and within the property and feel valued within the unit of the business. So we spend a lot of time or most mornings in fact, talking about what's happening for the day and in the business side of things, and it's really got to be a two-way street. And it's got to be a very open relationship as well. And if the employee needs time off to do something in particular, well then it's pretty important that you realise that and let them do that. And the other thing is to really understand that they're going to have their own ways of doing things and it's not necessarily always the same as the way I would do it, or my dad would do it, or the way we've done it on the farm.

Andrew Bell:

And so you really have to let them have their responsibility. And as long as the job is getting done, it's most important that they're rewarded for getting the job done and not chastised for perhaps doing it incorrectly or in the way that I would have done it or my father would have done it.

Drew Radford:

Andrew, you used the term there reward, in terms of the mentor mentee relationship, is it a two-way thing? People sometimes have the perception that look it's really just the mentee who gets everything out of it, but does the mentor gets something out of it as well, as far as you're concerned?

Andrew Bell:

Yeah, look very much so I think Drew, and I've quite enjoyed talking to Sammy, on the telephone, we haven't met in person yet. Look, she's very proactive and a real early adopter, and that, it makes me think about the way we're doing things here. And sometimes because it has been such a long held family farm, you do things in the ways that you've always done them. By talking to Sammy, and other people in younger farming roles, you can get very excited about redoing things on your own property in a different way, just by talking to them and seeing how they're modernising things with perhaps, with different sheep handling equipment or different computer equipment for the cropping side of things.

Andrew Bell:

They're all up to date with the latest podcasts and Twitter and Instagram, which can certainly help in modern farming. Whereas perhaps some of the older-aged farmers aren't as interested in that type of thing. So it's certainly a two-way street there, Drew.

Drew Radford:

What would you say Andrew, to other experienced farmers about possibly getting involved in the program?

Andrew Bell:

Look, I think it's been a great program and I applaud AgVic for getting into it because it's certainly helping the mentees with setting their future direction. And as I've mentioned the mentors tend to get a lot out of it as well. And I'm sure that if we weren't in these restricted times with travel et cetera, well then we'd be meeting up as a group and having good one-on-one chats and group chats about future of farming and how to go about things in a professional way. Which I think is really what we're all aiming to do, to get the efficiencies of planning and profitability on farms.

Andrew Bell:

And the great way to do that is by meeting. And unfortunately at the moment, because we can't meet, we're doing it via Zoom and phone calls, but I still think it's working quite well. And the mentees at this stage do appear to be getting a fair bit from the coaching if you like, of the mentors and the mentors are getting a benefit out of it as well.

Drew Radford:

So you'd encourage your farming friends to get involved?

Andrew Bell:

Yeah, certainly. I do have farming friends that do mentor younger farmers. Even in my district here, some of the young fellows have come back to the farm from either a shearing career or something else, and they've just needed that little bit of extra help from some of their neighbours, many of whom they've known all their lives. But it's just helped to convince them that what they're doing is the right way to do it. And not necessarily everyone has the right idea or the same idea how to do things, but as long as the outcome is the same or the reward is the same well, I think it's worthwhile.

Drew Radford:

Andrew, you mentioned that you haven't been able to meet with Sammy face to face, but have you been able to pick up that she's grown and developed during this period?

Andrew Bell:

I think so, Drew yes. And certainly with the advertising, for the fact that she needs a farm worker, we've worked on that one a couple of times over the phone and just tweaking things to get the right ad, to get the right person that she can go forward with on the property. And she seems very confident now that that's in process and it should really help to secure her, the person that she wants and needs to help her on the property. And she seems a very confident young lady and I'm sure she will make the right decision with regard to an employee for the future and the direction of the property.

Drew Radford:

Andrew, you've got a lot of experience to share there, literally four generations of farming in your DNA. Thank you for taking time to share some of that with us in the AgVic Talk Studio. Andrew Bell from Mockinya. Thank you for joining me in the AgVic Talk Studio today.

Andrew Bell:

Thanks Drew, I really enjoyed it and yeah, let the rain keep falling as I'm watching it out the window here, it's beautiful at this time of year.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk, for more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or a rating and share this series with your friends and family. All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Share the profits, some of the risk, but none of the capital outlay, it's a farming arrangement called share farming. And, with primary production often being expensive to get into, is it a pathway for developing future farmers? G’day, I'm Drew Radford and the only type of farming Hans Van Wees does is share farming. To find out more about it he joins me in the AgVic Talk studio, Hans, thanks for your time.

Hans van Wees:

No problem.

Drew Radford:

Hans, where do you farm?

Hans van Wees:

We farm in, Tinamba, which is in the MacAlister Irrigation District located around Maffra.

Drew Radford:

Now Hans you're running a few head of cattle on that dairy farm aren't you?

Hans van Wees:

Yes.

Drew Radford:

How many?

Hans van Wees:

We run about 850 milking cows. And depending on the time of the year, we also have 240 yearlings and 240 calves.

Drew Radford:

So it's a fairly busy operation and it's not just you running it then I'm guessing?

Hans van Wees:

No, it’s me and five full-time equivalents, and my wife helps out as well with the calf rearing and other times.

Drew Radford:

Hans you're growing a bunch of your own feed as well though I understand?

Hans van Wees:

Yeah, we have some parts of the farm we don't graze much, so we grow lucerne and cereal crops through to lucerne for silage. And we occasionally dabble with some summer crops, if the season and water availability is kind.

Drew Radford:

So that's a reasonable patch of land then isn't it? I'm assuming.

Hans van Wees:

Yes.

Drew Radford:

How big is the land Hans?

Hans van Wees:

Total area is 400 hectares, of which 200 hectares is used as a milking area. The other 200 hectares is support country for the young stock and of that 200 hectare support country, 130 hectares is irrigated as well.

Drew Radford:

So it's a reasonable patch of land. You've got a lot going on, especially looking after 850 cows of milk on a daily basis, but underneath it all Hans, this is a share farm. Now for those that don't know what share farming is, how would you explain it?

Hans van Wees:

You share a percentage of the inputs, depending on the percentage, and you share a percentage of the outputs. So you basically become part of the risk. You take part of the risk with you.

Drew Radford:

You described that very simply Hans, cause when I was reading some background material, I was left asking a lot of questions. Well, what about this? And what about that? And we'll drill down into that in a bit, but how did this relationship start?

Hans van Wees:

Very interesting. I was actually share farming another job and that terminated, and I actually rang my current share farming partner looking for a house. He says, I can't give you a house, but I've dabbled over the years, come and see me about a share farming agreement, starting first July in 2008. So, that's how that started.

Drew Radford:

And you haven't looked back since obviously you're still on same property?

Hans van Wees:

Nope, been there since 2008.

Drew Radford:

So, Hans, what would some of the benefits then be of share farming? The way you see it?

Hans van Wees:

Okay, depending on the share agreement, you can make a lot of money in good years, a hell of a lot of money. You have a fair bit of freedom to run your farm.

Drew Radford:

You're ultimately responsible for the daily decisions though. Are you? Or are they shared?

Hans van Wees:

Oh, I do all the daily decisions, grazing management, irrigation management, repairs, and things to keep the farm going. I don't have to refer back to my share farming partner to okay it. If it has to be fixed it just gets fixed. Now big capital expenditures, we have a meeting, we do a budget. But yeah, day-to-day running, I do all that.

Drew Radford:

That was one of the big questions in my mind was about those big capital expenditures. Let's say you want to put in a new milker? That's a lot of money.

Hans van Wees:

Well, the owner pays for that anyway, the share farming partner. So, our big expenditures would be upgrading irrigation infrastructures, silos, maybe milk vats. That's the other partner's cost anyway. But yeah, we discussed that fairly thoroughly and now I have to justify my spending.

Drew Radford:

I would imagine you would. I mean, you're essentially going to a shareholder, aren't you? Essentially.

Hans van Wees:

Going basically to the shareholders slash bank to justify. If we do this, I can return you X, or you know safety, or sustainability measures. So that's really what we look at.

Drew Radford:

You described that very clearly and simply, but Hans there's a lot of trust there from your shareholder that you're a pretty good business operator to get in bed with to start with it I assume.

Hans van Wees:

We had known each other probably for about 10 to 12 years beforehand, and we butted heads a fair bit, but a business relationship is very, I would call it, very professional.

Drew Radford:

That's interesting description, Hans, you butted heads, but you still ended up working together?

Hans van Wees:

He's the major shareholder, and he still has final say on anything if he wants to. But he said, I don't want to milk my cows, I don't want to work, I want to go on holiday, I want to go away, I want nothing to worry about. I'm paying you a lot of money to do the job properly and deal with the problems.

Drew Radford:

On that Hans, some of the problems. I understand the property, 80 per cent of its floodplain. You've got a major weir upstream.

Hans van Wees:

Yeah we've been flooded a few times.

Drew Radford:

So you've been flooded a few times. How does solving all of that end up playing into a share arrangement? You've got insurance, you're going to have fences to be arranged, you have got lost productivity. There's a whole range of things.

Hans van Wees:

Yep, so the lost productivity, we share, that's just the fact of life. I'm on a floodplain, that has advantages and disadvantages. Capital rebuilds, that's the other partners problems. So any major capital damages from floods, that's not my issue. I'll have to provide a bit of labor to help and stuff. But yeah, it's very well detailed.

Drew Radford:

I like the fact that he used the word detailed there. I'm assuming that really boils down to a written contract?

Hans van Wees:

Yes, written contract and understanding what each other's responsibilities are.

Drew Radford:

Hans, how often do you review these contracts?

Hans van Wees:

We haven't reviewed it since the day we started.

Drew Radford:

Wow, you laid it out well enough 15 years ago that everyone's been happy?

Hans van Wees:

Well actually the person I'm share farming with he had an agreement originally and I basically took it over as it was, with a couple of little tweaks, but nothing major. And we probably meet at least four or five times a week anyway, over coffee and just chat. So there's never any really big surprises

Drew Radford:

Right? Okay. So, Hans, often people use share farming arrangements to get into farming before becoming landholders.

Hans van Wees:

Yeah.

Drew Radford:

What has been your drive to remain in a share farming arrangement, long-term?

Hans van Wees:

I think, this sounds horrible, I can make a lot more money being a share farmer on a very profitable farm, and probably a lot less capital outlay.

Drew Radford:

Simple fiscal reality.

Hans van Wees:

Yes. I do own land, but nothing to do with the dairy farm.

Drew Radford:

That's a really interesting analysis. And you strike me as the sort of person Hans who would have weighed up those figures over the years.

Hans van Wees:

Yeah. I've done those figures. And I've looked around the Australian dairy industry, I see a lot of people struggling to find employees like me. Why would I put myself in the place where I'm going to be exposed to more risk, and stuck with a farm I might not be able to run myself properly?

Drew Radford:

Hans what would your advice be for young farmers looking to use share farming to get into farming, whether that's dairy, horticulture, or any other form of farming.

Hans van Wees:

First thing, do a realistic budget, with realistic figures, and realistic ambitions. Nobody's Superman. Nobody's got to set the world on fire the first few years in any enterprise.

Drew Radford:

Being a pragmatist sounds key as far as you're concerned.

Hans van Wees:

Yes. So just plan for the average, hope for the best, and prepare for the worst.

Drew Radford:

Hans, how do people get involved in share farming?

Hans van Wees:

Well in New Zealand it's a structured way of getting very reliable labor. Now money and rewards is a pretty good driver. The better you do, the more money you make.

Drew Radford:

Hans do you think there is a lot of potential for share farming to become a more common way of operating in the future?

Hans van Wees:

I think there is, but I think that there's an issue you might have some share farmers not up to this job. And you'd probably find some owners who'd balk at some of the money some of us are earning share farming. It's eyes wide open. It's not always going to be beer and skittles. You know, sometimes it’s thorny subjects you got to deal with, but do it professionally. Do your budgets, do your cash flows, do your risk analysis.

Drew Radford:

And as a share farmer, where did you go to learn those sorts of skills? You did an agricultural degree in New Zealand many years ago, but since then.

Hans van Wees:

I did a couple of courses through Dairy Australia, which really helped. I did the Frontline Management course through RMIT, which is really good about risk structures. I learned a lot from them.

Drew Radford:

Hans, you’ve done a remarkable job developing your share farming relationship to where it is and have shown that ongoing training has assisted you get to where you are today.

I reckon you’ve undersold the amount of work you’ve done to continue your education. The completion of a graduate certificate in Front Line management; and advanced leadership training and specialised nutrition courses through Dairy Australia are all long courses that require a good amount of time to complete.

The commitment to education and continuing to build your business and technical skills over several years is a really important part of having a successful farming enterprise.

Thank you so much for your time and joining me in the AgVic Talk studio.

Hans van Wees:

No problem.

Drew Redford:

Hans van Wees is a regular contributor to the Milking the Weather newsletter. Subscribe to the Milking the Weather newsletter on the Agriculture Victoria website.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant, before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria authorised by the Victorian Government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Where's the next generation of farmers coming from? It seems not all of them grow up with dirt on their boots, which is the case for Melbourne-born Tamara Pabst. Her suburban dreams of becoming a farmer and the reality of now owning her own farm near Lurg were a long way apart.

Drew Radford:

G'day, I'm Drew Radford. To find out how a city girl ends up becoming a sheep farmer, Tamara joins me in the AgVic Talk studio. Thanks for your time.

Tamara Pabst:

Thanks for having me.

Drew Radford:

Now, Tamara, just in case there is any confusion with those listening, the rooster cries in the background are real because you live on a property, don't you?

Tamara Pabst:

Yes, I can confirm I do. I've also got six guinea fowls, so if you hear them screaming at some point, don't be alarmed.

Drew Radford:

Tamara, you didn't grow up on the land though, did you? Anything but, really.

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah. I actually grew up in Pakenham, in South East Victoria. We did spend a bit of time growing up there on my grandparents farm, just outside Mansfield. Yeah, we'd just go out there for school holidays and long weekends and things, and liked to help my grandpa on the farm.

Drew Radford:

Is that where the desire came from, from your grandparents?

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah. Well, I always had a passion for animals and then I realised that it was more rural-based animals I liked. Then I did a bit of work on, the neighbours to my grandpa's farm. They had sheep, so I'd go out and help them check sheep when they were lambing and help them with crutching and sheering and all those sorts of things and lamb marking. I developed a bit of passion for that and steered in the direction of being a rural vet, but then when I did my Bachelor of Agriculture, I realised that I liked the agriculture side of things more and there's so many more job opportunities in that, you don't just have to be a vet.

Drew Radford:

There are a lot of opportunities, but the difference is you also want to be a farmer. You want to have your own property, don't you?

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah, for sure. I love the idea of being able to produce off the land and produce a living and an income from it, so that's why I looked at this property last year that I purchased. Yeah, I just love the sheep side of things as well, because they are dual purpose. Obviously, you're getting your wool and your meat from them. That's sort of why I steered in that direction and really enjoy just being on the land.

Drew Radford:

You mentioned that kind of lightly, "Well, that's why I purchased this property," but it's been a long road just to get to that point I imagine, a lot of hard work and saving, because it's not a case of inheriting it or some sort of succession process.

Tamara Pabst:

No, that's right. Yeah, I've been saving for a very long time. Yeah, this opportunity came up last year. It was neighbouring my boss's place. The option came up to purchase it privately and they actually offered it to my boss. He has been doing a lot for me and actually offered it to me to get myself up and running, so that's how I got in that way. But yeah, definitely a lot of hard work over a long time.

Drew Radford:

Well, it continues to be hard work because you are still working on your boss's property, aren't you? What are you actually doing there?

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah, so I work full time at Kilfeera Park. It's a Merino stud and we run about 4,000 ewes out there, obviously enough to keep me employed full time. Then just in my spare time, I just manage my hundred ewes that I've got. We've got rams, that's one of our income streams. We look after them, feed them morning and night and constantly fine tuning them. Then just the general husbandry of managing ewes and lambs all the time, so enough to keep us busy,

Drew Radford:

Tamara, getting the property is one thing, and yes, you've studied ag at uni, but there's still, I imagine, quite a gap in skillset from all of that and actually running it and being a farmer. How do you go about that?

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah, for sure. When I finished my Bachelor of Agriculture, I thought I would be lacking a bit because I didn't have that growing up in a farm experience like a lot of my peers did. All my friends went and got jobs when they finished their degree. I was living up at Dookie College, just working part-time while I did my third year, and then I had the option to stay on for another year and work full time to gain some more experience, which I really enjoyed. Then I went overseas for a bit and came back, and by working on this farm here I've gained a lot more experience and feel pretty competent in this industry now. I definitely think just applying to get jobs to where you can get experience is really beneficial because it just opens the door for so many opportunities in the future.

Drew Radford:

Well, it has opened doors for opportunities in the future, but you've also sought out opportunities I understand, in regards to trying to further your own skillset through other areas.

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah. Early this year, Agriculture Victoria held a business bootcamp for young farmers. That was two days held over at Bendigo, which helped you to look at the farm from a business perspective as opposed to just running the farm on a day-to-day basis. I found those days really useful, because not only could I learn, but I could talk to other people there and think of new ideas to help me on my own farm. Yeah, I just think that is such invaluable information for me, which was great.

Tamara Pabst:

I also applied for Young Farmers Scholarship last year, and that gives you $10,000 total, so $5,000 to go towards up-skilling, so getting the opportunity to go and get some skills that you can bring back onto your farm. Once that's completed, you get another $5,000 and you can then put that information into practice on your own farm in various ways. I've applied to do a Graduate Certificate in Agribusiness, and once that's completed, I will go and purchase some weigh scales so I can accurately record data on my farm and help it to be as productive as it can be.

Drew Radford:

Tamara, you're talking about improving how you operate your property and the scholarship's going to be an important part of that, can we just take one step back to the Young Farmer Business Bootcamp? What sort of things have you been able to take away from that experience and apply it to your business so far in practical terms?

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah. I've been able to look at my farm from a whole business perspective, as opposed to just working day to day on the farm and just being able to take a step back and look at things like cashflow budgets and livestock trading accounts, and then even looking at the bigger picture, formulating a five-year plan so I can get a bit of an idea of what I want to do with the farm in the future, not just right at the moment. I think it's super important to look at it from all these different angles.

Drew Radford:

Tamara, can I ask, what does your five-year plan look?

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah, so I've currently got my hundred Merino ewes in the place, maybe in the next five years I'd look at leasing some land of my boss as he looks to downsize or increasing the stocking rate on my own property once I put some fertiliser and urea on this year. Hopefully, depending on the season, obviously I had a pretty good season so far this year, but it's easy to look at the future. But yeah, hopefully be able to increase the stocking rate and improve the productivity of the farm would be a good goal to have. Yeah, and then just see where it takes me.

Drew Radford:

In terms of where it does take you, are you looking to do further study elsewhere?

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah. I found a really cool course; it was a farm manager course and it's for a week in New Zealand. Obviously, when we can travel again, I'd really like to go over and do that. I just feel like you might get even more of an insight. Farmers on other farms, they might have different perspectives about different things because of different climates, but they also might have some knowledge that I can transfer onto my own property.

Drew Radford:

You've achieved a lot at a young age. Has there been a case of, "Well, I've got to sacrifice this to do that," or have you been able to pick a balance in the middle and still lead a young life, for want of a better description?

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah, it's definitely had it sacrifices, obviously saving a lot leading up to the purchase of the farm, but it's all about finding a balance between things. You've got to have a life as well. It's all good to be goal-driven but you've still got to be able to enjoy the life that you're leading at the moment. Yeah, I think it's just good to be able to manage everything. I still took a few weeks off and went overseas before I started my job here at Kilfeera Park a few years ago. I think that's really good, to go away and just relax and refresh yourself before you come back and start working again, just to open your mind up. It makes you realise that this is what you want to do. Yeah, I really value that time as well, as well as being on the farm.

Drew Radford:

Tamara, what advice would you give to other young farmers working towards owning their own land or business?

Tamara Pabst:

Yeah. Well, if you're going to make sure it's your goal, what you definitely want to do, because if you don't value it, then you're not going to want to achieve those goals and save as hard towards it. I think first and foremost, you have to be sure that that's what you want and commit to it, to commit to achieving that goal. It takes time, you've got to be patient. You can't just expect to have everything at the tip of your fingers. I'd also say just taking all the opportunities to learn and develop your skills and knowledge. Taking opportunities to network as well, meeting people in the industry. I wouldn't have got where I was without meeting these people that wanted to help me along the way. Then taking opportunities such as the ones that Agriculture Victoria offers, such as the scholarship and these free bootcamps that you can get to. There's so much knowledge to be learned and it's up to you if you want to take those opportunities, because you're the one that's going to benefit in the long run so it would be silly not to.

Drew Radford:

Tamara, do you think it's been any disadvantage to you not coming from a farming background?

Tamara Pabst:

I probably think the opposite actually, because just being open and honest saying that I didn't come from a farming background, a lot of people have then given me the opportunity to learn and develop myself and develop my skills and knowledge. Yeah, I just encourage anybody, even people that aren't from the farming background and if you are interested, to still apply for these things. You don't know where you're going to end up. If you're committed enough and passionate enough, you can still achieve the things you want to do. You don't have to be off a family farm and inherit a bunch of land to be able to make your dreams come true. You can always start small and meet people and take every opportunity you can get to get where you want to go.

Drew Radford:

Tamara Pabst, it sounds like you have taken every opportunity, you've made a lot of your own along the way. Congratulations on all you've achieved so far and thank you for joining me in the AgVic Talk studio today.

Tamara Pabst:

No worries, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family. All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Building your own farming enterprise from scratch can seem like a distant dream for many aspiring young farmers. However, the thought of having three farms under your control before you're even 30 would sound like pure fiction to most. Good day, I'm Drew Radford and what I'm describing is the remarkable achievement of Emma Hawker and Tristan Schilling, who've left no stone unturned in their quest to become farmers. To find out how they've achieved it, they join me now at AgVic Talk studio. Thank you both for your time.

Emma Hawker:

Thanks for having us.

Drew Radford:

Firstly, whereabouts do you farm?

Tristan Schilling:

Edenhope in Victoria. We also do some farming at Nhill, Victoria. It's about 100 kilometers down the road, so yeah, we've diversified a little bit.

Drew Radford:

And what do you farm?

Tristan Schilling:

We do cropping at Nhill, and we do mainly sheep at Edenhope.

Drew Radford:

How big are the properties Emma?

Emma Hawker:

The one down at Edenhope, that's a 730 acre property. And then up at Nhill, it's about 700. We have another one at Douglas now, 640 acres.

Tristan Schilling:

That’s a leased property.

Emma Hawker:

That's a leased property.

Drew Radford:

That's quite a bit of growth for both of you, because let's wind it back just a little bit. First of all, how did you come into farming? Emma?

Emma Hawker:

My parents are in a transport and haulage business, so I've always been around farming. But I trained as a registered nurse and really got involved in about 2014 with Tristan, when him and his brother were looking at buying their parents' farm.

Drew Radford:

On that Tristan, you grew up on the family farm, and it was a succession thing, was it?

Tristan Schilling:

Yeah. I grew up on the family farm at Nhill. Mum and dad, they had about 5,000 acres of just continuous cropping. And then they were struck by the Millennium drought, and downsized from 2011 through. They downsized, got smaller and smaller. And so that's where my brother and I in 2016, got the opportunity to buy the last bit of property they had left.

Drew Radford:

So you went into share farming with your brother then, how did that go?

Tristan Schilling:

My brother and I bought the last 820 acres of my parents' farm. And we didn’t get on from the start we both had different ideas in how to work and who was going to work it, and all that sort of stuff. And basically after I worked it for two years, and after that, we both decided to sell it, and that was going to be the easiest option in going our own ways.

Drew Radford:

That sounds like a quick and smart, early decision, rather than laboring through something for a very long time, I'd imagine?

Tristan Schilling:

Yeah. At the time it wasn't probably the easiest, but looking back on it, it probably worked out for the best to dissolve it quickly and move on, and get our lives on track when we were in our early 20s.

Drew Radford:

That's easier said than done though, isn't it? Because selling one property, which I assume you probably had to borrow for in the first place, and then trying to go on and set up another property. It's not straightforward.

Tristan Schilling:

No, no. As soon as we sold that property, I was pretty much just onto agents, real estate agents and looking around. And we looked everywhere within a 300 kilometre radius just for something. And that's where we got the opportunity to buy down at Edenhope. This is a pretty rundown farm when we bought it. And a lot of people said, "You're silly buying that farm, it's not this, it's not that." And yeah, we never looked back really.

Drew Radford:

Emma, I understand there's a bit of a phrase for this property though, which relates to suburban real estate, doesn't it?

Emma Hawker:

Yeah. One of the worst farms on the best street.

Drew Radford:

So did you buy it together?

Tristan Schilling:

No. At the time I bought it. Emma and I had only been together for three years. So I bought it just off my own bat.

Drew Radford:

But has that caused issues down the track though, in terms of now you're a partnership, but I imagine the property is in your name? How does the bank deal with that?

Emma Hawker:

Yeah. So in 2019 we officially became T and E's Farms partnership. Because yeah, as Tristan said, despite being together for many years and especially this farm, building it from the ground up, we realized because it was in Tristan's name, when it comes to the bank, they don't recognise us as official partners or equal partners. So that really was the culmination for us forming a partnership when the bank didn't recognise us.

Drew Radford:

Obviously though, it sounds like you've got around that though, Emma, because you've gone from that one property, whereas now you're involved in three properties.

Emma Hawker:

Yeah. So it's still all sitting with Tristan, because you've got to have so many years as a partnership for them to recognise. You definitely need 12 months. And then just the way it's been going, we haven't really needed to go back again. We'll be revisiting that in the coming months though. So luckily we've just been able to push on with the two of us and our off-farm income to keep getting us through.

Drew Radford:

The reason I asked that is, being in an official partnership, I imagine that makes things easier down the track, does it? In terms of dealing with banks and future financing issues?

Emma Hawker:

Yeah, definitely. And that's why we did it. That's why we became partners on paper.

Drew Radford:

Tristan, winding it back just a fraction. You were very honest and upfront there in regards to, you worked out very quickly with your brother that it wasn't going to work between the two of you. So what would you suggest to siblings who are looking at succession planning and moving ahead with the family property?

Tristan Schilling:

Yeah. Just get it done early. And Emma and I have talked, if we ever have kids, we'll be succession planning with them from day dot, if you know what I mean? It won't be a drawn out process. I think every family farm has had some sort of complications in some sort of succession planning. So we've gone through it early, and it's going to be one of the first things we do when we have children. That's if they are, or aren't interested in the farm, it just got to be done.

Drew Radford:

Is that a lot about too expectations on children as well, that well, I was a farmer, you're going to be a farmer, or is it something like that?

Tristan Schilling:

That's right. There's always, something got to be done with the farm, whether they're going to be a farmer or not. So you just got to get it done and get it sorted. And I suppose succession planning so big now, because everyone else's parents have basically stuffed it up in some respects. That's why it's so big now.

Drew Radford:

Emma, what did you take away from that process?

Emma Hawker:

It definitely shows the importance of setting clear boundaries and expectations, because whilst it is a family, it is a business. So I think sometimes it's really hard to separate family from business, but at the end of the day, farming is a business, so you need to make business decisions. So yeah, really learning that separation, which can be really difficult because obviously for parents, this is their whole life, and we were still quite young coming into it. But just requiring boundaries and really clear expectations, and everyone's roles and responsibilities, I think is really important from the outset. Otherwise it can become quite a headache.

Drew Radford:

That sounds like very sage advice, that at the end of the day, it is a business. And that's often difficult to separate when you've grown up on the family property.

Tristan Schilling:

Yeah, it is tough, but you just got to move on and get it done, and everyone's got to live on with their lives, I suppose.

Drew Radford:

Well, you have moved on and you have got it done. I would argue almost in remarkable time, now being involved in three properties. Beyond the initial, okay, we're going to go out on our own, what are some of the things that have been a challenge to get to this point?

Tristan Schilling:

Yeah, cashflow is a big thing. So when we bought the farm at Edenhope, we just pretty much had enough money for a deposit. And then the bank said, "Yep. And then when it come to livestock, find your own way." So we've had off-farm income and just saved and worked hard for it, and probably missed out on a lot of things to put towards our farm and that sort of stuff. So yeah, cashflow is one of the hardest things we found, especially with the bank, because if you want to borrow a hundred grand, you sort of got to have a hundred grand before they'll give you money nowadays. So that's been our hardest thing.

Drew Radford:

In terms of that off-farm income, is that you Emma working as a nurse?

Emma Hawker:

Yeah. I work at our local hospital. I've also moved into a quality role, so that's been keeping us going there. And then Tristan was also shearing. And then on weekends usually, it'd be doing the farm work.

Drew Radford:

That's quite a balance, isn't it? That would have an impact on both of you in terms of trying to manage your time effectively, wouldn't it?

Emma Hawker:

Yeah, definitely. Especially if I'm working Monday to Friday, and then on the weekend we have lamb marking and doing that on the weekend, and then back into work again Monday. But yeah, one thing I think we really worked out at the start, we would do our own shearing. So Tristan would be shearing, I'd be in the shed rousing, and we'd slowly make our way through. And then we're like, this probably isn't working in terms of we're missing out on completing other jobs. So it was really having a look at how can we be time effective, in the sense that while we might have to pay someone, the time it's saving might be the opportunity cost we're gaining. So yeah, it's really been a review of what we should be doing and not just doing everything ourselves. So now we'll get another shearer in and another rouse, so we can get it done in a couple of days, instead of I think what we did over a month of weekends.

Drew Radford:

Emma, that sounds really the simple age old adage of sometimes you've got to spend money to save money as well, isn't it? That's a smart application of resources.

Emma Hawker:

Yeah, definitely, definitely. That pretty much sums it up.

Drew Radford:

It sum it up also for tensions of working together on certain occasions, I'm sure as well.

Tristan Schilling:

Well look, we have arguments, there's no doubt about that, but at the end of the day we always come home where it's back to normal sort of thing. I think it's just part of any normal farming relationship I reckon.

Drew Radford:

Is there any other challenges that you've had along the way that come to mind that you've come over? Most people would have just kept on in your scenario, no we're not going to bring somebody in, we're going to keep working that through. So are there other challenges that you've managed to work through to get to this point?

Emma Hawker:

I'd say we've been really lucky in building our machinery asset base, which has allowed us to expand into some contracting.

Tristan Schilling:

Yeah. We have bought some machinery to do our own jobs, and then we've gone out and said, let's see if we can do some contracting with it, which we've been pretty fortunate. So yeah, we've bought a spreader, do our own spreading, and ended up doing a lot of spreading contracting with that. And we bought a header doing our own harvest and ended up doing our own harvest and go and do a lot of contract harvesting with that, which has really helped us. And bought an air seeder and went to Donald to do a lot of contract cropping up there, which is good. And it's really helped us get to where we are. That's probably a big help, as long as with our off-farm income.

Drew Radford:

That's a smart way of looking at it too, isn't it? Because buying the land is only the first part, then actually having the equipment to work it as an entirely separate equation and often nearly as expensive.

Tristan Schilling:

And especially for our acreage, a bank looks at this and says, "What do you want to buy that for? You're better off getting a contractor." But then at the end of the day, once you own it you can do it when you need. So sort of a catch 22 when it comes to that stuff, trying to borrow money and build up machinery wise.

Drew Radford:

It's pretty clear that you're working towards your dreams. Based on how hard you've both worked to get this far, what makes you feel positive about the future of your careers in agriculture?

Tristan Schilling:

I just think coronavirus has really proven. So when coronavirus first came in last March, I think it was, we had lambs. And my agent was telling me, "We'd better start booking some forward contracts in for lambs, because this could be disastrous. What's going to happen?" And grain, and all this. And I think it's just really proved that there's such a strong demand for it, products of agriculture, and it's a really positive industry to be in.

Emma Hawker:

It's also the lifestyle. I think having ownership of your business and our future, building something together, it's really enjoyable. I think farming, it's a lifestyle and it can be really hard, and you need to be really resilient, but it can also be so enjoyable, rewarding and you can come home and just feel like you've really accomplished something that's not only for yourself, but is going to benefit your community and society.

Drew Radford:

Have you been involved with external groups or mentoring programs to actually help you get to this point?

Emma Hawker:
Not exactly external mentoring programs as such. I'd say we've been extremely lucky and grateful for the support networks that we have and the friendships and relationships we've built, from Tristan shearing and just living in the community that we do. And we've been extremely fortunate to have a lot of people sharing their knowledge and wisdom with us. That's including our neighbors down south who were really welcoming, because it is a different farming type down there. They've been our unofficial mentors and it has been a major influence and really assisted us to get to where we are now. I suppose we've also received some great advice, that being having a really good team surrounding you. So when you're looking at your team, like your stock agent, your agronomist, accountant, and also just building on your own knowledge at all times. So yeah, not formal, but definitely we've had some fantastic unofficial mentors.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like you're balancing quite a bit there, Emma and Tristan, between running the farm, off-farm work, working as a nurse in your case, Emma, and also doing further study. I think a lot of people would feel that their nose is just above the water line.

Emma Hawker:

Yeah. Yeah. It can be quite stressful and difficult. But yeah, got to keep pushing because at the end of the day, we're achieving our dream.

Drew Radford:

Emma Hawker and Tristan Schilling, you've achieved an enormous amount in a short time, and I look forward to hearing what you achieve over the years ahead. But thank you so much for joining me today in the AgVic Talk studio.

Tristan Schilling:

No worries. Thanks for having us.

Emma Hawker:

Yeah. Thanks for having us Drew. It was really good.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

We would love to hear your feedback. So please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family. All information is accurate at the time of release.

Contact Agriculture Victoria, or your consultant before making any changes on farm. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Everyone deserves to go home at night. For farmer and business owner, Danyel Cucinotta, it's way more than a line about safety. It's the foundation to how she helps run her family's egg farm. It's a philosophy she's also passionate about beyond her own farm gate. Recently, she was elected as Vice President of the Victorian Farmers Federation, the position she's bringing fresh perspective to as the youngest ever in that role. G'day, I'm Drew Radford. And running a farm is becoming increasingly more complex, particularly around OH&S. To find out how Danyel is incorporating that on her own property, she joins me in the AgVic Talk studio. Thanks for your time.

Danyel Cucinotta:

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Drew Radford:

Well, it is a pleasure to have you here, especially as I imagine time is tight, as not only do you help run the family farming enterprise, which is a big operation, you're also a young mum and recently elected as VFF Vice President. There's a bit to juggle.

Danyel Cucinotta:

So the VFF and my farming job is nothing compared to having a toddler at home, so that is definitely the hardest part of my job. However, coming to the VFF and doing my work there, looking after farmers, and doing the advocacy policy side of the industry is actually quite fun. I enjoy it. I'm a bit of a nerd at home. And yeah, my job on the farm is quite, I guess, easy these days simply because I have an entire support network and my family are all here. So they relieve the pressure of me. And yeah, the toddler's the crazy one. So I enjoy that, but that's the hardest part of my job.

Drew Radford:

Well, talking about the farm specifically, you point out that you've got a support structure there. That must be particularly important though because there's three businesses running from one location. That must make managing staff somewhat complex.

Danyel Cucinotta:

Yeah. So we do have the farm and on farm we have a cafe and a deli. Each department has its own manager. So we're very fortunate that they almost run with someone looking after them. However, my job is OH&S and HR. And that is an entire complex situation based on depending on what department I'm talking to. But I personalise it, I enjoy it, and it gets me out on the farm again. So yeah, I'm a half-glass-full kind of person. I enjoy the work and I always see the positive side of it.

Drew Radford:

Drilling down into that a little bit further though, Danyel, there must be a mix of skills and also language skills to some extent. Is there?

Danyel Cucinotta:

Yeah. So there's differences in skills. There's differences in age groups. The way I will communicate with my casual cafe staff about whether it's HR or OH&S is very different to how I'll speak to and ensure the understanding on the farm. Especially with some of our staff. English is their second language, so ensuring that I've found a way to communicate properly. And having the HR side of our business has really helped because I've created relationships with each individual staff member, whether it's the deli, the farm, or the cafe. And I then communicate the OH&S side based accordingly. Yeah, it's very complex, but we find a way. We manage because it's just so important.

Drew Radford:

Well, you do place a paramount importance on that. Why is safety something that you are constantly thinking about when it comes to your business?

Danyel Cucinotta:

Because everyone deserves to go home at night. So we're a family farm. We get how important family is. And we obviously want all of our staff to know that they're safe here and we want them to go home at night and see their own families. But it's very much passed down through my father.

Danyel Cucinotta:

So quite a while ago, when I was a lot younger, there was an accident on a neighboring farm at the time. And dad, I guess he thought that he had to take this a little bit more seriously, OH&S. So not so much what was happening, but rather the implementation and the way we communicated that more effectively and more efficiently. And from then, he then started the process. And a couple of years ago when I got pregnant, I thought, well, I can't do as much day-to-day operations. I had this huge stomach out in the front of me. It didn't allow for carrying boxes anymore. So I thought, well, what can I do? And how can I improve it? So I took over the OH&S. And I'm a bit of a social butterfly on the farm, I won't lie. I love a good chat. So yeah, it just fitted in really well. And it allowed us to create a new direction for us in OH&S and HR at the same time.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like that accident was quite pivotal in terms of how your family looked at health and safety full stop.

Danyel Cucinotta:

Yeah. So after the accident on the neighboring farm did happen, WorkSafe came around to all the farms in this area, started checking in on what kind of processes we had in place. And we were doing everything right. But I guess the panic, like when someone comes to check in on you and finding all the paperwork. Back when dad was doing it, he was like, "I was going through filing cabinets. I was nervous. You don't know where to find everything when you're being asked for it then and there." So we took a new approach because we thought, oh, we've got to be more efficient, more effective.

Danyel Cucinotta:

And we then implemented, or dad implemented at the time, a software program, but he still did it by hand, but on paper. But he was at least having more consistency and more continuous improvement and having more accountability of himself. And then as I came in a few years ago to take over this particular part, I was like, "Oh, pen, paper. Why?" So I then came in and spoke to our particular software program and said, "What can we do to improve this?" And we then got the app up and running. And now I do everything on the app. And it's amazing. Just walk around the farm, take photos. I do all my toolbox meetings on the app. And it just keeps me accountable too and makes sure that in my busy schedule I don't forget to continually do the processes and the policies and the updates for all our staff and myself.

Drew Radford:

So rather than being a chore, this is something embedded in you and it's a living, breathing thing which is constantly evolving and being updated?

Danyel Cucinotta:

Yeah. So I think OH&S or farm safety to safety in general, it has to be. It's a continuous improvement. It never stops. I personally don't look at it like a chore. I enjoy it. I don't know how many other people will ever say that, but I do. I enjoy it because I go around and I have a chat to our staff and it keeps that morale. So it effectively actually benefits us as a business because we're going around, we're showing our staff that we care about them. It creates better relationships in the long term. And then they also feel more comfortable to come and say, "Hey, we're not really happy with this particular thing." or "This seems a bit funny." So they're essentially my eyes and ears on the ground. And once you have that relationship, it's no longer a tick-a-box exercise. It's actually true health and safety on the ground.

Drew Radford:

What tips would you give to those particularly who haven't had your experience to have these conversations with their family about farm safety?

Danyel Cucinotta:

Dinner table conversations in our household are still just like any other family farm. So you can never really tell dad and my uncle exactly what to do. My mum's old mentality, not for safety, but my dad and my uncle would use it, it's do as I say, not as I do. So this program actually gives me more, I guess, of a leg to stand on. It's like, "Hey dad, don't forget that if we're showing our staff this particular way, you need to be the leader. You need to showcase that we're doing it all the right way and the correct safety equipment is being used." So it holds dad and my uncle accountable too. And it just gives me the opportunity to sort of like stand up and say, "Hey, don't forget that you can't do it that way."

Danyel Cucinotta:

So the software itself is what has given me that opportunity, but I'm sure if you sit down at the table and just say, "I care and I love you and I don't want anything to happen to you, so you need to do the right thing so we can all go home and argue at the dinner table on Thursday night."

Drew Radford:

That's a fantastic description. You made the point earlier on that you're a bit of a social butterfly. You like moving around the farm and talking to people. How important though is it to actually have structure around that and monthly check-ins with staff about work safety, and how does that work in a larger group as opposed to one-on-one chats?

Danyel Cucinotta:

Yeah. So we don't do larger group toolbox meetings anymore for a number of reasons. One, because there are three different businesses on site. We just simply cannot get everyone in the room at the same time. There is just too many different needs and requirements of different staff members. So again, language barrier is one, age group, the way I communicate, the particular policies at the time, it's different for every staff member. And three, as I said, the relationship is essentially what has made this. So our software provider sends us monthly continuous improvement updates, which could vary from policies to proof of OH&S systems on the farm, and then it's my job to ensure we go out and take the photos or have the toolbox accordingly.

Drew Radford:

People sometimes say it costs too much to have the latest safety equipment. Why do you feel this is money well spent?

Danyel Cucinotta:

We personally, and I would imagine everyone out there would say the same, you can't put a price on anyone's safety, especially your own family and your staff. It's like insurance. We very much treat OH&S systems and our software and the monthly updates as an insurance. We go out. We do the thing. We make sure everyone's looked after. Ideally, we don't want to be claiming back on this because that means something's gone wrong. So it's an investment we do to ensure that we don't end up with something bigger in the long term.

Drew Radford:

You're obviously engaging with your staff a lot. I'm guessing you view it as really important to have a good workplace culture, especially when it comes to farm safety.

Danyel Cucinotta:

Yeah. So our staff retention is quite good. We don't have too much staff turnover here. Cafe's a little bit different. You always have casual staff throughout their uni degree stay and go, but we've essentially seen a huge improvement since doing the individual toolbox meetings. And yeah, the staff culture's quite good. And it's also a comfortability thing. They know that we're looking after them. They know that this is a place that they enjoy working at. And we also make it very clear that they can come and chat to us about anything. And they really become a second family. I know more about their families than maybe I should sometimes. But yeah, I enjoy it and they enjoy it. And you spend so much time in your workplace, so why not have a safe and an enjoyable environment while you're there?

Drew Radford:

Is this about setting it up right from day dot through with a good induction process as well?

Danyel Cucinotta:

Yeah. So I had the farm safety consultants at the VFF come out and have a little chat to me about where I was late last year. And I wanted to know was our farm doing okay? Were we on the right track? And we were doing all the things right. And it was actually my inductions that were probably lacking. So it's okay not to be perfect. It's just a matter of knowing where your improvements need to be made. And at the time, John came out and said, "This is great. This is great. This is great. However, you're lacking here, here, and here." And yeah, I spent the next three to four months improving those practices and getting those inductions sorted. And that was probably my downfall just only six months ago. So here I am. I'd be pretty proud of my induction.

Drew Radford:

I would imagine then being proactive and fixing and acting on concerns as quickly as possible is fairly paramount to the way you run your farm and your businesses.

Danyel Cucinotta:

So funny example. Recently, Kyle came to me and he's like, "Oh, the emergency exit light isn't working. The bulb has blown." He then had his two days off. So he alerted me on Monday and then Tuesday, Wednesday had the days off. And he came in on Thursday and he was so proud of himself, even though he didn't fix it. He just alerted me. And I won't lie, I didn't fix it either. I gave that job to dad. But he was so proud of himself that he felt heard and he felt like he was part of ensuring the health and safety in our business was also at the level it needed to be. So when he came in and he did make the comment, he's like, "Last time I bought something up at my old workplace, they never actually fixed anything."

Danyel Cucinotta:

So yeah, we're all about timeliness, effectiveness. And if our staff bring a concern to us, we take that very seriously. And I mean, fixing a light bulb being blown is part of the way that you do things and it keeps Kyle happy, it keeps one of my staff happy, and it shows everyone else that we do care about what's being brought to our attention and we will fix the things that need to be done.

Drew Radford:

What would your advice be to farmers who are worried or concerned about getting a safety advisor onto their own farm?

Danyel Cucinotta:

So the Making our Farmers Safer program is fabulous. I cannot recommend it highly enough because the consultants are not there to pick on and give you some kind of infringement notice or anything like that. Instead, they're there to find flaws that we may have in our business and give us the tools and resources we need to actually fix them and ensure that we're looking after everyone. So I know it all seems scary. And my uncle actually has that mentality where it's like, "Oh, we don't want anyone coming in. We might end up in trouble," whereas my dad's the opposite. Dad's like, "No, we need the help. We can use as much as possible." So I would say to everyone, yes, it seems scary, but this particular program that's running at the moment one, it's free and two, everyone needs a bit of help. So I would highly recommend them coming out on the farm to actually see where we can all improve. And it's for the benefit of everybody.

Drew Radford:

Danyel Cucinotta, it sounds like you're running a pretty tight ship and OH&S is your first priority. And I imagine that's got significant positive flow-ons for your business. Thank you for taking the time and joining me in the AgVic Talk studio.

Danyel Cucinotta:

Thank you. It was a pleasure and I hope I can come back soon.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government Melbourne.

Caroline Winter:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

With a lifelong love of dogs, a passion for rural and regional Australia and a commitment to boosting the resilience and wellbeing of her community, it's no surprise Kelly Barnes has made her mark. She's the recipient of the 2020 Victorian AgriFutures Rural Woman of the Year Award, which recognizes her innovative working dog training school pilot program that sees the dogs not just as a tool of the trade, but as a very important companion.

Caroline Winter:

I'm Caroline Winter and in this episode, Kelly explains to me how her program has very personal origins and how it's focused on not just teaching farm dogs new tricks, but bettering the social and mental health of farmers and her community. Kelly Barnes, thank you for joining me in the AgVic Talk studio.

Kelly Barnes:

Thanks for having me. It's a great pleasure.

Caroline Winter:

Kelly, you live in Dunkeld in Western Districts, how would you describe your connection to the land and the people on it?

Kelly Barnes:

I live in town, but I work in rural merchandise, so I work with farmers every day. And then I live vicariously through my friend who works on a farm. And as I described, I'm a fair weather farmer now so when it's sunny, I go out and help them and when it's raining, I stay inside and watch Netflix. But it's really great here. It's such a good community. I love sheep so it's perfect to me, it's a lot of livestock farming around here, which is great and the people are just really lovely. So it's perfect spot to be.

Caroline Winter:

And so have you always lived in a rural community?

Kelly Barnes:

Yeah, I'd say so. So I grew up on a farm in the south of England. We were quite near to town, it was about an hour outside of London, but we were on a farm there. And then ever since I've come to Australia, I've always worked and lived on farms or lived in rural communities.

Caroline Winter:

And what do you enjoy most about living in a rural or a small community?

Kelly Barnes:

That's a really good question actually, because growing up where I went to school was quite built up, more urban and I guess I'd never really found my fit and then when I came over here, I just loved being with other farming people and sort of having the open space and the fresh air and things like that and just I obviously really loved farming. And I just never really found those kinds of people where I grew up. So I had a few farming friends and I know when I went to uni, I definitely found a lot more, but where I grew up there probably wasn't as many and I hadn't found that niche of people. So I think when I came over here, I just really loved the fact that everyone was so absorbed in agriculture.

Caroline Winter:

I like that, you found your people.

Kelly Barnes:

Yeah. And I do remember when I went to uni in England, like I went to an ag college and I sort of really found a whole range of people there that I never knew existed. And then coming over here, it's like a whole other level again, I was amazed when they had adverts for sheep drench on the TV and I remember ringing my mum and dad and telling them, like you just wouldn't get that in England. So I just really love how Australia is really backing their farmers and everything's really based around agriculture.

Caroline Winter:

Well, you've certainly found your place in the agriculture community in Victoria and you won the 2020 Victorian AgriFutures Rural Woman of the Year Award. Congratulations again. What is that award about and what opportunities did winning it give you?

Kelly Barnes:

It's just been absolutely amazing. And I always laugh because I think when I applied for it, I don't think anyone ever really truly knows what they're getting themselves in for, but yeah, it's been so much bigger than I ever imagined. So it's basically a way to promote and help you fund an idea or a project that you've got running, so you win a $10,000 bursary, but there's so much more to it than just the money. And I think just the connections you make, the opportunity you get for personal development, there's seven of us that were the state winners and you've just got this huge comradery and everyone's there to support each other and you're just surrounded by such amazing women. And it's those things that I've really loved, it's that celebrating each other, but really sort of seeing how many powerful women there are out there and really getting behind each other and helping each other out. And we've had so many personal development opportunities through it.

Kelly Barnes:

So I guess this year for us has been a completely different experience to the normal structure of the award, so we won in March 2020, and then we never had an award ceremony for Victoria, it was right at the start of COVID and then they postponed everything for a year. So we sort of had this weird standstill where we've been doing bits and pieces on Zoom and then we just had the national panel judging over Zoom as well. So it's all a little bit different, but it's just the support. The AgriFutures team are just amazing at getting behind you and really pushing you where you need to be pushed, but giving you the opportunity to really tell your story and get your idea out there and connect you with other people as well. It's the network of connections and the alumni and everything else like that, it's just a really powerful group.

Caroline Winter:

You mentioned the $10,000 bursary. Now you established the Dunkeld Working Dog Training School, what was the catalyst, I guess the inspiration, behind establishing the school?

Kelly Barnes:

Back in 2018, I did a digital storytelling workshop with the National Center for Farmer Health and it was about telling a story of a challenging time that we'd faced. And I had to put a video together and get pictures of various things that sort of related to my story. And I was going through my phone and looking for pictures and literally every single one of them was a dog selfie in one way, shape or form. And as I was putting this story together, I had all these pictures of my dogs and I just thought they've been huge for me, I've never really probably appreciated how much they've helped me outside of doing farm work, that support and that companionship and just being there. And I have a chronic condition called fibromyalgia so I spent a fair bit of time on the couch with fatigue and things like that and my old dog's always with me then.

Kelly Barnes:

So it really sort of sparked this idea of well, if that's how much they can help me, nearly every livestock farmer has got a dog and I just wonder if they can start to get some of those benefits. So yeah, that sort of sparked the idea. And then I've done a dog training school with Ian O'Connell back in 2012 and I remember thinking, "It's absolutely amazing, but I can't remember half of it," and I did it two Sundays, one week after the next, and then three or four months down the line, you sort of think, "Oh, I have all these other questions and I've tried these things and they don't really work and I'd love to go back and do more." So that's part of the concept too, is that you get that ongoing support so you get a day to catch up and learn things and then you get time in between to go and try ideas and then come back and brainstorm and debrief and things like that.

Kelly Barnes:

So basically based on my own experiences of both the challenges of living rurally, the challenges with mental health, and then having these courses where you go and learn a whole chunk of information all at once and then you're just let loose on your own, I needed that ongoing support. So that's where I designed the program.

Caroline Winter:

So it sounds like you've brought a number of passions together, and it is an innovative program. How central was developing this kind of approach to enhancing the social and the mental health needs in your town?

Kelly Barnes:

The underlying theme behind it all is to improve mental health and wellbeing in farming. So I studied a couple of years ago some of the modules that they run at the National Center for Farmer Health around agricultural health and medicine and I did a lit review on the mental health outcomes in rural communities. I think it really opens your eyes. I don't think even though we've tried to break down the stigma as such, people still don't talk about it and I don't know whether they really realise what's actually going on for themselves or for someone else. I think farming is always tough and everyone sort of just takes that for granted, but there's so many things that you can do to make it a little bit easier.

Kelly Barnes:

You do spend a lot of time on your own and whether you work in a team or not, a lot of the jobs you are doing on your own and the only thing you really have with you is you dogs or you're working with your sheep or cattle. So to build resilience is huge, and I think it's not necessarily for people with a mental illness either, it's just giving people the tools to prevent them getting down that path, or just becoming aware that I think there's so many things that can affect what you're doing that are out of your control. So it's really giving you the tools to focus on thing that you can control and then sort of be prepared for those situations when they do arise and work through them a lot better.

Caroline Winter:

You mentioned the relationship and the bond that you've had with your working dogs over the years and your current pooch is it Dougal? Can you tell me, what is that relationship like and why do you think that there is that strong connection that can, I guess, help you and others through some difficult times?

Kelly Barnes:

Yeah, it's a really good question. It's actually really hard to sort of identify. I guess, I've always loved animals, I'm just naturally drawn to them and I just remember always wanting to get my own dog when I was younger and the first ever working dog I got was a Border Collie in the UK. And ever since then, when I came to Australia, obviously had to leave her behind. And Dougal was my first dog I ever got over here and I just really missed having that dog with me and they are company, but they're quite calming, you're sat on the bike and you're moving sheep and they'd be on the bike with you and you'd be patting them or talking to them, they're just always there with you. They just have this absolute admiration for you like you can do no wrong and you have a really tough day and things go wrong but at the end of the day, they're still there with you and they just absolutely adore you and would do anything for you.

Kelly Barnes:

And I think you can see them when they're working, they will try their absolute hardest to do what you ask of them. And they're very forgiving and yeah, there's just something really special about them. And I find it quite a hard thing to really narrow down on because it's so subtle, some of the effects and the support they give, but definitely now poor Dougal, he's 14 and he's had a few injuries in his lifetime so he now pretty much spends his life on the couch, but even then, I come home from work and he'll sit in the garden sometimes during the day and he's just there at the gate waiting for me. So even though we don't work on farm, he's still there, he's really loyal and he's just that really good company.

Caroline Winter:

Obviously you have had that affinity with animals all your life, what other skills did you already have that helped you establish the dog training program and what skills did you have to acquire on along the way?

Kelly Barnes:

As far as actually official skills, probably none. But I remember getting feedback from a leadership program a few years ago and everyone said, "Oh, you're just so easy to talk to, I'm always really comfortable talking to you, you're kind," and all those things and that really got me thinking because I just have the ability to have these tough conversations with people. And a friend of mine always says it to me too, she's like, "People always open up to you, they always just start talking about things with you and they don't do it with me." And so I guess that was my kind of role in the program to start introducing some of those more difficult or more unspoken topics around mental health and things like that, but in a way that people feel comfortable.

Kelly Barnes:

So I enlisted the help of Ian O'Connell, so he is amazing and he did the dog training side of it so I didn't have to have any dog training skills. And I think to draw people into a program, you have to have someone that's really, really good in that area and if I'd tried to do that myself, I wouldn't attract necessarily those people, they're sort of coming to learn off Ian and then I kind of sneak all the other stuff in behind the scenes. So that worked really, really well. So just working on my own experience and kind of the experience of watching producer groups and working with clients and working with different farmers, seeing how much they can benefit from getting together and getting off farm, but that's all the stuff that you do in the background.

Kelly Barnes:

So it might not be really obvious to other people, but I just tune into that and I can really see the benefits. So sort of setting up exercises to get people working together, setting up the day so they have enough time at lunchtime to have a chat and have a coffee and things like that and just really having some of those tough conversations, like we'd had a discussion around suicide and around fear of failure and things like that, but it was sort of done in the middle of the program when everyone's a little bit more comfortable with each other, but also you still had a couple of sessions after the following months to then move on and have some wins with your dogs and other things.

Kelly Barnes:

So it was just really, I guess, for me having those people skills to frame those conversations and find the appropriate time for them, but be bold and have those conversations too. I think it is important to include some of that stuff in there, but being aware of the audience too. I couldn't bowl in on day one not knowing anyone, no one knows each other and then get everyone to start caring and sharing. I think people would have not turned up or run out the door a hundred miles an hour. So just having that ability and that emotional intelligence to read the room and see where things fit.

Kelly Barnes:

And be adaptable, like I had this schedule set out in my mind and I was quite flexible depending on what had come up, but pretty much every subject that I'd come up with was the perfect timing and people would talk about things at the end of one session and I'd be thinking to myself, "Oh, this is great because that's exactly what I planned for the next one." So yeah, really reading the room and being a bit flexible, but also not being afraid to have those open conversations as well.

Caroline Winter:

It definitely takes a good structure and the right person, particularly when you're dealing with difficult issues. So what does the program involve?

Kelly Barnes:

In a nutshell, it's six one day sessions, they're based once a month so we ran the last Saturday of the month for the pilot program over the course of six months, there was a group of 15 people, Ian O'Connell runs the dog school so he's got his own sort of framework around teaching people how to train and work their working dogs. So we do a bit of practical, a bit of theory and then I sneak in a bit of resilience stuff sort of in between as well. So we'd incorporate different aspects, like the first session was around goal-setting so getting them to set goals of what they wanted to achieve with their working dogs throughout the course and then building on that as we go.

Kelly Barnes:

We talked about nutrition and how that affects how you're feeling and how you perform and the same with the dogs and tying a lot of stuff in back to their relationships with their dogs. So things like fear of failure, you might go out and try something with your working dog and it's an absolute disaster one day, but the next day you go and do it and it's completely different. So just being brave enough to go back out and try again.

Kelly Barnes:

And I think one of the things I really found most valuable is the debrief sessions, so the participants would get the chance to talk about where they've had some wins and then if they'd had a few issues or something was a bit of a disaster, they weren't afraid to bring it up. And then as we went through, the other participants all sort of pitched in to help each other out as well. So they got a really good balance of practical, some theory, and then that chance to debrief and that chance to really get together and help each other out and build friendships as well. The whole idea is to create a group of people that are likely to catch up outside of the program as well. So they're learning to interact and help each other out and then hopefully they can then carry on doing that once the course finishes as well.

Caroline Winter:

For participants who've already been through the program, how have they gone so far? What kind of feedback have you had?

Kelly Barnes:

At the moment, we're just working through getting some independent evaluation done, but I've got a few brief snippets of feedback and they've just been amazing, they've said it's a life-changing program, they've really enjoyed meeting new people, staying in contact with people. I think the biggest thing that I have seen is just watching them grow, having that repetition and they've all really loved the format that they can learn some skills, go and practice, and then come back and talk through it again with Ian and talk about what's gone wrong and what they can do better.

Kelly Barnes:

Another one was incorporating those aspects of resilience and probably building awareness to it. So I think people don't always think about that on the land, they don't always take their own health and wellbeing into account and they probably don't realise how much it affects what they're doing as well. So I think just really highlighting that and things like stress, the last session we did was all about low stress stock handling and kind of remaining calm and tying that all in together. And I think sometimes people get so worked up when they're working stock and it's all going wrong, but all the participants, you could see them over the course of the program, they've learned to accept that when things go wrong, it's okay and you could see their reaction from day one where they'd be really stressed and really worried about it to the last session where things go wrong and that's all right and you just get back in and go again. So I'm really looking forward to getting the final report and then grow and keep building on it.

Caroline Winter:

What advice would you give our listeners who might want to take on a project like yours or apply for the AgriFutures' Rural Women's Award?

Kelly Barnes:

A hundred percent just do it because I am the queen of procrastination and I would never have got anywhere near where I've got now without doing it. So it's absolutely life changing program. And even if you don't get through, so even if you think you have an idea, but it's not quite there just apply anyway, just have a go, just chuck in an application. I did the previous year and it was quite honestly not very great if I look back at it, but one of the previous winners, she messaged and emailed and she said, just get in touch, happy to help you, happy to brainstorm, and she did. And so the following year, I was like, "I'd really like to try again," so I fine tuned to my ideas and really nutted it out and then I spoke to her and I spoke to another girl that had won the South Australian award and they really step you through it.

Kelly Barnes:

So I think don't be afraid to have a go. And if you don't get through the first year, try again, it's not the end of the world, it's all a growing experience. And just be really open to the opportunities. I mean, I'm more than happy for anyone that's thinking about it or that doesn't think that they could do it, just jump on the phone and have a conversation and throw your idea out there. The more you vocalise your idea, the more real it becomes.

Caroline Winter:

A great offer there and some great advice. Kelly Barnes, thank you for joining me in the AgVic Talk studio.

Kelly Barnes:

And thank you for having me, it's so great. I could talk about dogs for as long as you'd have me. So it's always a pleasure. Thank you.

Caroline Winter:

If this podcast has brought up difficult emotions for you, please find someone you can talk to or call Beyond Blue on 1300 22 46 36, MensLine Australia on 1300 78 99 78 or Lifeline on 13 11 14.

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Caroline Winter:

Jessie Holmes has come full circle. Jessie grew up in the town of Dimboola, and after moving away for study and work, she returned to the neighbouring Shire of Yarriambiack as the youngest female local government CEO in Victoria. Her rural and agricultural roots run deep across the Wimmera and Mallee. She's a passionate advocate for, and leader of, the community she represents. Hi, I'm Caroline Winter. In this chat, Jessie helps demystify how leadership and advocacy work together, and reveals the one big takeaway for anyone starting out down this path. Jessie Holmes, thank you for joining me in the AgVic Talk studio.

Jessie Holmes:

Thank you for having me.

Caroline Winter:

Jessie, you grew up in Dimboola, and are now the Chief Executive Officer of the neighbouring Yarriambiack Shire. Does that have special meaning for you?

Jessie Holmes:

I guess so. It's good to be in the Wimmera where I grew up, so schooling in Dimboola, and then I went away, traveled overseas and went to university in Melbourne, and then moved back to Horsham and then Birchip, which is in the next-neighbouring Shire of Buloke where I worked for nearly 10 years. So yeah, just a strong affinity to the Wimmera region. My parents were born around this area as well, my Mum in Watchem and my Dad in St Arnaud. My husband's off a farm just south of Horsham. So we're entrenched in Wimmera, as far as you can be, I guess.

Caroline Winter:

How wonderful. So a bit of a homecoming, I guess, a bit of a full circle?

Jessie Holmes:

It really was. We've been back for nearly 13 years, and it's one of those places where you leave, and as you start to drive up the Western Highway and you get closer, and you go through the Grampians, and then you start to see the broadacre cropping, the browns and the yellows as opposed to the greens, that you start to realise you're back home in the Wimmera, Southern Mallee area. It's a nice place to be.

Caroline Winter:

Can you paint a picture for me of the Yarriambiack Shire in terms of agriculture, and I guess the flow-on effects and the benefits that the industry brings to the community?

Jessie Holmes:

Predominantly, broadacre across Yarriambiack, so 94 per cent of our land is zoned farming. We've got 14 towns across the council area, the largest being Warracknabeal, with sort of 2,500. Then you've got your next range of towns, Murtoa, Hopetoun, Rupanyup and Minyip, which are around the 500 to 900. Then a spattering of smaller towns that are between the sort of 50 to 150, 50 to 200, around Woomelang, Lascelles, Brim, Patchewollock, et cetera.

Jessie Holmes:

It's a very long shire. It's a long, skinny shire. We're about 220 kilometers in length. We have about 5,000 kilometers of road that Council manages. One thousand is sealed, 2,000 of gravel, and 2,000 of urban roads. The average farm property is six to seven times what it was in the 1960s. There's been a lot of aggregation across the agricultural communities as well, but the efficiencies on-farm over that period have just continued to grow and grow.

Jessie Holmes:

So the machinery that's used, the chemical usage, the ways in which tillage, and crop care, and paddock rotation, and just the amount of agronomy and extension research that's happened over the last four decades, has really just seen the type and the quality of the crop that is grown, just continue to be expanded upon each year.

Jessie Holmes:

With that comes a bit of feast and famine as well. So we had the Millennial Drought, we've had floods in 2011 and 2016. You'll get a good run of a few years, and then you'll have a few lean years, and then you'll have very dry years. So the fortunes can be varied, and being a long shire, you can have an amazing crop in the south with the north really suffering, or you can have below-average yields in the south with a sporadic outbreak of good yields in the north.

Jessie Holmes:

So it can be at times quite a gamble for a lot of our community. And then our rural community feeds into our townships as well, so a lot of the businesses are rural-dependent enterprises. So their fortune and famine also rely on the cycle nature of the agriculture yields as well.

Caroline Winter:

Now, you're the youngest female local government CEO in Victoria. You certainly were when you were elected at the age of 31, you're a few years into the job now.

Jessie Holmes:

Yeah.

Caroline Winter:

Did you always have goals of being a leader?

Jessie Holmes:

I definitely think my nature was to bring people together to get the best outcome, which I guess by nature extends into leadership, but certainly, sure, if you asked my parents, they would have suggested that I was quite bossy as a younger person, and that probably fed into them thinking that I would take charge at some point.

Jessie Holmes:

I didn't necessarily leave school with the intention of going into local government. I'm not sure many people do. The story of local government, most people you speak to in local government say they don't quite understand or know how they fell into local government. But yeah, it certainly made sense. I studied community development and policy planning at university, and at a post-graduate level.

Jessie Holmes:

We were living in Birchip at the time. My husband is an agricultural diesel mechanic, so that gives me an agricultural radius to live in as well. So I returned, and through some contacts with the local government at the time... Buloke was looking for a town planner... so I started there, effectively, not long after I moved to town.

Jessie Holmes:

Then over a 10-year period with Buloke, I added something else each year. It was building, and then planning, local laws, community development, economic development, et cetera. So I got to a point where I was at a director level, and I had statutory services and community services, and really quite enjoyed being able to put into effect the decisions that were made by our council.

Jessie Holmes:

You had a council making those strategic decisions, and then you were the operational perspective, able to actually make those decisions hit the ground into a reality. So 12 years into local government, and it's one of those careers where you never have the same day twice, and you get to be involved in lots of different things, and you actually get to see real things happen on the ground.

Jessie Holmes:

You get to see your councillors making decisions that you know are going to change the lives of young people, older people, in sport and recreation, in economic development, in the environment, for waste management. It's really nice to be in a position where you get to lead an incredible team of staff to make those council decisions to become a reality.

Caroline Winter:

So was it important for you, in this kind of role, as a CEO of a shire, to be in an agricultural area, to be in charge of a rural community, so to speak?

Jessie Holmes:

Yes. I think for me, I can't envisage a time where I wouldn't be in a rural area. I love everything about living in the Wimmera. We've got a small family now, so the girls are at primary school, and our family is here. Our parents are here, and I just can't imagine why you would be anywhere else.

Jessie Holmes:

All the things that I love about living in a regional area... I love my drive to work is 60 kilometers, and it's half an hour of just I might pass two or three cars, but I get to see the paddocks changing over the 12 months, from whether it's the burning stubble to the growing canola, to the headers out at 9:30 at night with their lights on during harvest. I get to see that cycle happen across the community.

Jessie Holmes:

I get to see what communities are like when things go right, or go wrong. Some people don't always love that in small towns, everybody knows everybody's business. That has positives and negatives, but it's very rare to get people in rural areas that aren't working 110 per cent to the benefit of their community. That sense of community, I couldn't imagine being anywhere else, to be honest.

Caroline Winter:

Let's go back to your first leadership position. How did you find yourself there? I guess if you think back, how did you feel at the time?

Jessie Holmes:

I started as a planner, and then I moved to a coordinator. I remember becoming a coordinator and then not just looking after myself, but looking after three staff at that time. Starting to learn some of those management skills around offering support to your staff, giving them structures to work within. Then I became a manager, and then a director.

Jessie Holmes:

You certainly notice the change when you start to offer leadership instead of just management. You're not just saying, "Here's your budget. This is what you spend, and this is what you need to spend it on, and this is the outcome that's expected," but you start to say, "Okay, well, we've got this budget. Like, what can we achieve? What's the strategic direction that's set by the community and the councillors?"

Jessie Holmes:

Definitely, the transition to management was fairly straightforward, learning finance skills and HR skills, but the transition to leadership, where you empower your staff, or even if you're leading with a community group, empowering them to be able to make the decisions and facilitating that is, for me, it was a bigger transition than just transitioning into management.

Jessie Holmes:

But it's this really great space, when you can see that the staff that you've empowered to make decisions, or you've facilitated communities to prioritise and make something a reality, like a new childcare center or a new rec reserve, and you can stand back and say, "They did that."

Jessie Holmes:

They were able to make that happen, and as a result of that, you may have provided leadership in relation to doing the advocacy to the state or federal government, but here you've got a community group that's actually got an outcome that makes it a better community for everybody. I think it's a different skill set, and it's one that you have to work on a lot harder than I think necessarily just becoming a good manager.

Caroline Winter:

Let's talk about advocacy. You have been in an advocate-type role for quite some years. How important is good advocacy and leadership in a rural community like yours, not just for the towns, but for the future of ag in the region?

Jessie Holmes:

It's so important. We do advocacy at a local level, at a state level, at a federal level with government, with private partners. Good advocacy is being able to articulate the advantages of investing in a service or a capital product that people can relate to or can understand.

Jessie Holmes:

So we talk about the storytelling that comes with advocacy, and because a lot of people have a romanticised view of living in rural communities, so they're often associated with being quaint and the community all getting together, and those things are very true, but the need for services and the need for development in those communities is also very real, and is less romantic.

Jessie Holmes:

How do you say to a government, state or federal, that has a range of competing priorities for their funding... how do you make yours the service they need to fund, or your new hall the hall that they need to fund? So, constantly making sure your narrative is aligned to whatever those ministers' priorities are, or the bureaucracy understands what you're trying to say as well, is really important.

Jessie Holmes:

When I first came to Yarriambiack, their external grant-funding percentage was quite low for a small rural council. We've really managed to turn that around in three years, so that they're above average in relation to attracting external grant funding from the state and federal government. That's built on being able to attract the funding, but then also convincing the funding bodies that you can deliver, on time and on budget, the product that you said that you were going to deliver.

Jessie Holmes:

That's been building those partnerships and relationships with the bureaucrats, so that the people within the agencies... making sure that you're keeping them up to date... they know what's in the pipeline, they know what you're advocating for. Then briefing your relevant members of parliament at a federal and state level, so there's no surprises for them either.

Jessie Holmes:

They're perfectly aware of, if you raise something, it's not the first time they've heard it, they've got a briefing paper on it. Then obviously my councillors need to be out in the community, getting that feedback from the community, feeding that back into us, so that we're actually advocating for what the community wants, because then the community can get behind you.

Caroline Winter:

Advocacy can be a bit of a vague or a misunderstood term at times. What does it mean to you, and how have you been an agricultural advocate?

Jessie Holmes:

I think for us, especially at a state and federal level, there's a lot of ministers who fundamentally don't understand agriculture. I talked about that romanticised view, but it's a huge economic driver, so you have to bring those ministers awareness around what agriculture brings, not just to the economy, but the value-add opportunities.

Jessie Holmes:

Depending on the minister that you're speaking to, and what their portfolios are or what their general interests are, what their backgrounds are, you need to tailor your advocacy to that. There's some ministers who are very familiar with agriculture, who've been Ministers for Ag or Ministers for Regional Development. So you can target your advocacy or pitch it at a different level with them.

Jessie Holmes:

As opposed to potentially Ministers who've grown up in the city and who've been predominantly ministers of urban development or housing. You're having to pitch to them from an advocacy perspective, explain the importance of agriculture, explain the importance of rural, regional areas, and the significance of the products that are being developed or grown out in these areas.

Jessie Holmes:

We're constantly raising awareness and raising education about rural and regional communities, and agricultural communities, to anybody who will listen, so that they're aware of the challenges and the opportunities that come from government intervention or private intervention into the markets in rural areas as well.

Caroline Winter:

How, then, are leadership and advocacy related?

Jessie Holmes:

We've got a lot of leaders out in the community who might not be Chief Executive Officers, but they're leaders in their communities because they're able to advocate well.

Jessie Holmes:

If you naturally have leadership in the sense that people will listen to you and will follow what you're asking of them, and those natural leadership skills... which don't necessarily mean that you're the president of a group or you're the CEO of a company... but if you have the ability to bring people along with you because they will naturally follow or extend on your leadership skills, they're some of your better advocates.

Jessie Holmes:

They're the people who can quietly and effectively raise awareness around issues, and matters, and services, so that the players that can fund those services, or that infrastructure, or that development, understand the narrative. So your best leaders are, without a shadow of a doubt, your best advocates.

Jessie Holmes:

But I think we've got to be really clear that leadership doesn't necessarily come with a role, in the sense of being an elected president or whatever it might be. Often leaders in your community are those that are able to strongly articulate what your community needs, and they then become your best advocates.

Caroline Winter:

For someone looking to take up an advocacy role, or who may have found themselves in a place of advocacy or leadership for the first time, what piece of advice would you give them?

Jessie Holmes:

I think it's just being really clear about what you want. I know that seems really simple, but when you ask for something, people want to know what they're giving you. So you need to really clearly define the problem, and really clearly define the answer.

Jessie Holmes:

You need to be really clear and say, "You know, the issue here is that we don't have enough Div 1 nurses. The opportunity here is that we could collaborate with a... you know... training organisation to employ twelve nurses and hope that six of them stay at the end of their training, and this is what we're going to do about it."

Jessie Holmes:

It's really clearly articulating the problem, and really clearly articulating the outcome that you want, and what your ask is. People generally want to be able to give you what you ask for. If it's reasonable, people will find a way to give you what you've asked for. If it's reasonable.

Caroline Winter:

Jessie Holmes, some really valuable insights and advice. Thanks again for joining me in the AgVic Talk studio.

Jessie Holmes:

Thank you very much for having me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating, and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm.

This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 3:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

A teenage girl who dreamed of being a farmer was then told by a school’s career advisor that girls don't do agriculture subjects at school. It sounds like the sort of guidance that was dished out in the times of black and white TV. However, for Jess Knight, she received this guidance at a regional school during the internet age, in the year 2000. Jess followed the advice, gave up her dream and went on to study law. Fate, though, sometimes plays a hand, and Jess is now firmly on the land and helping other young farmers in the industry. To find out about her unusual path and the skills she brings to running a farm, she joins me in the Ag Vic Talk studio. Jess, thanks for your time.

Jess Knight:

Oh, I'm happy to be here.

Drew Radford:

Jess, could you almost describe yourself as an accidental farmer? I get the impression that you wanted to be one, and then you went on another course, and now you are one.

Jess Knight:

Yep. That's exactly it. It was a running joke in my family, actually, that Jess would never marry a farmer, and that's where I ended up. So.

Drew Radford:

So, you grew up on a farm?

Jess Knight:

No. So I grew up in town. I had... My grandfather worked on a beef and sheep farm. My uncle was a dairy farmer, so I was from a really agriculture area, but yet grew up in town myself.

Drew Radford:

So you went off to study something entirely different?

Jess Knight:

Yeah. So I was always interested in agriculture. It was what I wanted to do at high school, and I was told by a careers advisor that, "No, girls don't do ag subjects. Go off and do something else. Work in an office." So, I ended up going to Melbourne and getting a law degree. Then in the last year of my law degree, which I was doing by correspondence, I met my husband and then decided, yeah, that going back to the city wasn't for me.

Drew Radford:

Jess, I have to ask. What year was it that you were told that girls don't do farming? You don't sound that old to me, so I'm just surprised that you were being told that.

Jess Knight:

I graduated in 2003. So yeah, it would have been when I was in about year 10. So yeah, not that long ago, but I think, in probably the past 15 years, things have changed a lot for girls in agriculture.

Drew Radford:

Well, I would hope so, and you're living proof that that's exactly the case. So you met your husband and he was from a farming background, but it wasn't a case of him just taking over the farm, was it?

Jess Knight:

No, definitely not. So he'd come from a farming background. His parents had a beef farm. And straight out of high school, he wanted to do agriculture. It was what his passion was. And he got an apprenticeship on a dairy farm and did all of his apprenticeship in that. And then he went overseas for a year in Canada and worked on some cropping farms and that over there. And then the year that he got home was the year that we met, and I'd actually been overseas doing exchange in Denmark. So, we'd both had our sort of travel and everything, and yeah, we met, and I think, within about a little over a year, we were married.

Drew Radford:

Yeah. He wanted to get his own farming operation, and so did you, but that's easier said than done for a young couple, though. It's not a cheap thing to do to get into a farm.

Jess Knight:

No. So he was working on a farm, managing a dairy farm, and we always wanted to buy our own farm. But yeah, the reality of that, of the amount of money that it takes to purchase a farm now, was just sort of something that we saw it as a bit of a pipe dream. And then the farm next to his parents was a dairy farm. And we just approached the owners one day and just said, "If you're ever interested in selling, let us know." And then probably about a month later, we heard back and they were like, "Yeah, we'd be interested in selling." And we were like, "Oh, okay, sure." So we went through all the process of hashing out all the details, and we were lucky that we had family support to go guarantors on our loans, so that we could actually purchase the property. Because, I think, without that family support and backing behind you, purchasing a farm these days is just, it's not reachable.

Drew Radford:

Jess, it's a very expensive thing to get into. But then you did get into it, and then you found, well, it's not just actually the physical side of operating the property and producing milk in your particular instance. There's a lot more involved, and that's where, I understand, you guys became a real team.

Jess Knight:

Yeah, definitely. I think we bought the farm, and we knew that it was going to be a lot of hard work and a lot of long hours and the physical practical side of it, and then we went, "Oh, there's all this behind the scenes stuff that needs to be done as well." And I think that just naturally fell to me. I was in the house. I had a two year old and a three month old at the time, so getting actually out on the farm each day wasn't much of a possibility. So yeah, doing the books just fell into my lap.

Drew Radford:

So, it's the business of running the business, essentially in some regards, isn't it?

Jess Knight:

Exactly. And I think that's something that, I guess, farming seen as just the everyday, out in the paddock, getting all those jobs done, but there's so much more to it on the business side that also is needed to make it run well.

Drew Radford:

So how did you throw yourself into this? I mean, it seems that you've really immersed yourself deeply into the administrative side, and there's a lot of software out there to help you these days, but it's a labyrinth.

Jess Knight:

It definitely is. So, for me it was... We picked an accountant that worked really well. We knew they had a good reputation with farmers, so, we went along with them. And I think I got about a half an hour introduction to how to use our accounting program. And from there, it was just learn-as-you-go type situation. So for me, it was a lot of emails, a lot of phone calls to our accountant going, "What am I meant to be doing here? How does this work? Where does this go?" And I think it was just that learn-as-you-go factor that made it work for me.

Drew Radford:

Well, you're obviously not a slouch. They don't generally just hand out law degrees, but accounting's a very different a domain, isn't it?

Jess Knight:

Yeah. I think finance was never my strong suit, but I've definitely, yeah, taken it on gung-ho and come out of it on the bright side, at least.

Drew Radford:

Developing a good relationship with your accountant seem to be first and foremost, and then really self-teaching, in particular, accounting side of it. Is it also about building a network around that? I understand you're involved in a lot of different groups.

Jess Knight:

Yeah. It's definitely about having people to talk to. And you'll be at something and someone will say, "Oh, look, I do it this way." And that's the definite case of it, that I think I've changed the way I've done my books just in the past six months, based on some information that a friend gave me and said, "Oh, look, I've been doing this. It cuts my time in half." So definitely, we're involved in a group that our accountant runs, and it's all young farmers like us. And we put all of our figures on the table every year, and we go through, and we look at it all and see how we can improve our finances.

Drew Radford:

So you're actively sharing all those, what some people would consider, quite intimate details with other primary producers?

Jess Knight:

Yes. Yeah. Yep. So yeah, I think it's what makes the group work is that everyone's honest and upfront, and we all want to see each other succeed. So, doing it this way, it just works.

Drew Radford:

That sounds like an amazing living classroom experience, really.

Jess Knight:

It definitely is, because, yeah, we'll have a focus farm each month, and we'll go over any issues that they're having or any plans that they're putting in place. We were the focus farm a couple of months ago, because we're just in the process of building a new dairy, and we took our facts and figures in and literally, they went through and picked through it with a fine tooth comb, put up every possible scenario that you could look at, and every problem with it. And yeah, it helped us, because it's not just us looking over it then. It's getting the different viewpoint of probably 10 different people.

Drew Radford:

That sounds like an amazing opportunity. That could also be a little bit scary too, though. Does it ever prevent you from making a decision?

Jess Knight:

Oh yeah, it's definitely scary. I think we got home after that session and just sat there a little bit shell shocked, to be honest, with some of the things that have been put at us that, "Well, what if this happens and what about the cost of this?" It does make you sit back and go, "Wow, are we doing the right thing here?" But I think in the end, if you don't look at all the possible scenarios, then you're not doing yourself any favors.

Drew Radford:

Have you learned in this particular process too, about the efficiencies of actually having good backend systems and the money you can save? And I imagine also identifying opportunities to save money out in the field.

Jess Knight:

Yeah, definitely. It's looking at your day-to-day procedures and saying, "Well, yeah, I can save things here," and getting ideas from other people that say, "Well, look, we implemented this, and it's really benefiting us." And yeah, it just opens that door to new ideas.

Drew Radford:

Jess, I understand you're not shying away from the concept of exposing yourself to new ideas, because you are now doing further study in this particular field.

Jess Knight:

Yeah. So, I'm, at the moment, completing a Masters of Agribusiness at Marcus Oldham. And yeah, my subject at the moment that I'm doing is Global Commodities, which is, yeah, very finance-based and a lot of learning, a lot of new terms and things to wrap my head around. But yeah, I think that I'm always someone who's looking to learn more and do more.

Drew Radford:

You talked about the group that you were tied up with through your accountant, but are there other groups you're part of as well that you use and draw upon and add to, to try and build your own experience?

Jess Knight:

Yeah. So locally, we've got the Young Dairy Network, so that's made up of all local young dairy farmers, and they hold events and information nights so that you can learn more about the industry. And it's a really good focus group for those young farmers who are looking to take the next step in their career. We've also got a Women In Dairy, which is really great to get out there and talk to other farmers' wives and other mums who are going through all the same things as you. And most of them take on the same role in the farm as me, so it's good to sit down and have a chat with people that are in the same place as you.

Jess Knight:

Then on a more wider scale, I'm a member of the Young Farmers Advisory Council, which is a fantastic group made up of young farmers from all across the state, all different agriculture industries. We meet with representatives from AgVic and other places, sometimes with the Minister for Agriculture, and just go over what issues young farmers are facing and what we can do to help them.

Drew Radford:

You're involved in an incredible amount, on top of being a young mum and having a dairy running in the background. Do you ever get five seconds to put your feet up?

Jess Knight:

I think that's just part of who I am, and I think my husband's very much the same, where we don't put our feet up much, but I think we work hard, and the time that we do get to ourselves, we enjoy probably more for having worked hard the rest of the time.

Drew Radford:

Jess, what advice would you give to anyone listening to this, who's about to, for want of a better description, take over the books?

Jess Knight:

I think it's that, no question's too silly to ask. You won't be the first one to have asked it, and you won't be the last.

Drew Radford:

Well, Jess Knight, you're certainly no slouch in terms of taking over the books and a whole range of things that you're involved with. Thank you very much for joining me today in the AgVic Talk studio.

Jess Knight:

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for listening to AgVic Talk. For more episodes in this series, find us and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

We would love to hear your feedback, so please leave a comment or rating and share this series with your friends and family.

All information is accurate at the time of release. Contact Agriculture Victoria or your consultant before making any changes on farm. This podcast was developed by Agriculture Victoria, authorised by the Victorian Government, Melbourne.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to AgVic Talk, keeping you up to date with information from Agriculture Victoria.

Drew Radford:

Being knocked out by a kicking cow is dangerous enough as it is. Having it all happen while you're alone adds even more danger to it. Throw in being pregnant and also having your 18-month-old daughter playing on a rug outside the cattle yard would probably make most people stop and think about what is being prioritised on their farm.

Drew Radford:

G'day. I'm Drew Radford, and this was exactly the case for Sarah McLean. We caught up with Sarah in the first series of AgVic Talk, where we found out about her journey as a young farmer. It's a great story of persistence and can be found on the AgVic Talk website. Today, she's back in the studio to discuss the bigger picture, how putting your safety and health first is the most important thing you can do for your business.

Drew Radford:

Sarah, welcome back.

Sarah McLean:

Thanks Drew.

Drew Radford:

Sarah, you farm over a number of holdings. Where are they?

Sarah McLean:

The most of our land is down in a place near Drik Drik. So very far South West Victoria, but we also have a smaller property in Purnim, near Warrnambool.

Drew Radford:

You're kind of unusual, Sarah, because you and your husband have built these holdings up from scratch. They haven't been inheritances, so it's been a lot of hard work I understand.

Sarah McLean:

So we started off with 89 acres at Purnim. We saved hard and bought that and learned a lot of lessons along the way there. A couple of years later we bought some land down where the majority of our land is now in a place called Greenwald. And then we got some lease country and the business has built up over time from there.

Drew Radford:

You started from scratch essentially, but you did grow up on a farming property.

Sarah McLean:

Yeah, I did. So I'm actually a fifth generation farmer. So I grew up, as most country kids do, helping mum and dad out on the farm. I had a passion for horses and you always get the cattle in for them and it was just something I just always wanted to do. But I hadn't articulated I wanted to be a farmer. So I went away and studied psychology but always had in the back of my mind that I actually did want to be a farmer. And, I guess, having that career enabled me to save some money to then purchase that first property with my husband, Byron.

Drew Radford:

Sarah, the main focus of our conversation today is about farm safety. So you grew up on a farm, fifth generation. Do you remember safety being much of a focus as you were growing up?

Sarah McLean:

Oh, to be honest, not at all. We were sort of left to do our own thing. I'm sure in the background mum and dad were working to keep us safe, but it's not something that I would say I have really early memories of. I'm sure I rode my horse without helmets and we probably rode our bikes without helmets. And even the machinery back then, there's no cabins on tractors and things like that. And we used to ride the tractors around and all sorts of things that probably wouldn't fly these days.

Drew Radford:

You are juggling a lot. You got young kids going on, you're juggling properties around the place, plus a professional career. Has that led to you, when you're actually on your property, maybe not originally having safety as much of a focus as possibly it could have been?

Sarah McLean:

Yeah. And like, to be honest, there was a bit of a light bulb moment for me. So we bought that first property in Purnim and my husband was working overseas. As I said, we both worked pretty hard just to get our foot in the door and earn some money and buy that place. And I was heavily pregnant with my second child and my first child was about 18 months and she was playing on the outside of the yards as I was getting a heifer in that was having trouble calving. And, anyway, what happened was we had a really old crush that had no vet gate or anything, and I was trying to put a pole in behind the heifer so that I could put the calf pulley onto it. And she actually kicked the end of the pole as I was... Because I had to sort of bend down, because you can imagine I've got this massive belly, and get this fencing post in behind. And she kicked and it hit me under the chin. And I just got thrown back and probably very, very briefly got knocked out. And I sort of got up and dusted myself off.

Sarah McLean:

It really scared me. Not because I got knocked out in the cattle yards, because it's sort of like, yeah, you know, I was thinking, "Oh, this is not great when I'm pregnant," but I had my 18-month-old daughter outside the yards, playing. And that was a real moment because there's a creek probably only a hundred metres from where we were. And, while I was alert, I could just keep checking her and she'd had some toys there and I had a bottle there and she was quite happy doing what she was doing, and she didn't even notice what happened. But it really shook me up a bit and I just thought, "Hey, I've got to get better here." Because obviously if something happens to your children it just puts a whole new perspective on the importance of your own safety.

Drew Radford:

So was that really a moment of like, I've got to change things? Was it very quick or was it very, you walked away and went, "Oh yeah, what can we do better?"

Sarah McLean:

Yeah. It took time to think about getting better. And, I guess, being a new mum, it was sort of the first situation where I just went, "Oh gosh, that could have ended badly." I mean, nothing ended up badly. There was nothing that sort of happened out of it, but it's that I need to keep my kids safe, so therefore I need to be safe.

Sarah McLean:

So, I guess, now, my husband and I, we're always conscious and we've always got farm safety in mind with everything we do. So the first thing I did was obviously upgraded that cattle crush. So now I've got a vet gate. But that was a bit of a luxury in some ways, because, as you said, we're young farmers. We're saving all our dollars because obviously we've got cattle to buy, we've got land to buy, we've got all the tools and costs associated with running the farm. So you can't just, necessarily, buy new equipment all the time or have the latest gadgets and things like that for farm safety. So we've had to sort of think outside the box a bit in terms of how do we operate within our budget constraints and make things safer for ourselves and our kids.

Drew Radford:

So is there any structure that you put in place about making that actually happen then, Sarah? Is there procedure, planning, or is it just a constant reassessment?

Sarah McLean:

Yeah, so a bit of both. We had a bit of a think about what are the risk areas. And most of it is just changing practice and procedures and it just keeps evolving over time. So, for example, I've tried to up-skill in terms of being able to muster with dogs. So, say I was on a motorbike or four-wheeler. It makes it pretty hard to get cattle in, particularly if you have children with you. So I went and did a Neil McDonald school and getting increasingly confident with my dogs. And I'm lucky that my husband is quite confident working dogs and has some nice dogs. And so that means I can go out into the paddock and the dog's around and I just walk in front of the cattle and then there's no risk of me tipping a bike over, or having nowhere to put the children. Because I can either go on foot or I could go in the ute and everyone's safe.

Sarah McLean:

So it's all those little things. Mustering with dogs, for example, also has the added benefit in that it quietens or trains your cattle as well and they're used to seeing you on foot. So then when you get into the cattle yards, you're not working in their flight zone all the time. They're happy to see you and they're more well-trained to come off pressure and things like that. So it's little things that you don't actually initially go, "Wow, that's farm safety," but it actually is farm safety because, I guess, it's making your life easier and you're taking the risk out of it.

Drew Radford:

It sounds like a lot of common sense too, Sarah, but is there also a bit of planning about it as well. As I've mentioned, you've got a lot going on in your life. So is it about actually doing tasks and giving them enough time to do those tasks rather than trying to rush things?

Sarah McLean:

Yeah, a hundred percent. So it's allowing yourself time to do the job that you need to do. And, particularly with kids, I always pretty much double. If I think it's going to take an hour, I allow two. And sometimes it even takes three hours to do something. But you've always got to think about, if you're going to rush something, then things happen, mistakes happen. Say you're working cattle and you rush them. Because cattle know that you're in a rush, and all of a sudden they'll start getting stirred up as well.

Sarah McLean:

And you've got to manage fatigue. You can't be tired all the time and rush around from job to job.

Sarah McLean:

And I think, when you do rush, things actually end up taking longer. For example, if we buy cattle, my husband or I will spend some time with the cattle, making sure they have quietened down. And when I say quiet, I don't mean like we can go pat them. I just mean learning to come off pressure, not being upset if they see us on foot in the paddock, and things like that. So people say, "Well, I don't have time to spend that time with a cattle." And we'll even take them to the yards and just give them a dry run through the yards. By that, I mean we just take them to the yards and take our time and just let them walk through the yards so they know where to go. We don't process them in any way, so there's no injections, there's no pressure, and that's a positive experience for those cattle.

Sarah McLean:

And then you say, "Well, that takes so much time. Like, you know, that's going to be a half a day's work to put some cattle through." But then, the next time you yard them, those cattle are so much quieter, the job is so much quicker, and there's so much less frustration or potential for things to go wrong because the cattle are happy, you're happy, and everything works smoothly. And smooth tends to be quicker anyway. And then, every subsequent experience, the cattle have had a positive experience, so therefore things get quicker. You've got to be effective in what you're doing, and that trades off in the time that you spend in terms of preparation as well.

Drew Radford:

Sarah, have you come to the point in this process of perhaps realizing the most important asset on your property is you, and also your husband, and about protecting that? Is that probably the centre of all of this stuff?

Sarah McLean:

Yeah, I think it is the centre of everything. We have to enjoy our farming. And we know that farming is obviously one of the highest risk occupations, and we also know that farmers also tend to have poor mental health, maybe suffering often in silence and often not seeking treatment for different mental health conditions.

Sarah McLean:

And, I guess, people don't go, "Oh, farm safety, mental health," in the same conversation. They think, "Farm safety, I need a tractor guard or I need to have a cattle system where I'm working outside the yards," and all this sort of stuff. But, if you think of farm safety, I think mental health is one of the really most underrated aspects of that. Because, say you're anxious or you're stressed, then you're rushed and you take short cuts. Or, you don't pay attention and your mind's not on the job, you're not looking at your surroundings. Or, say you've got symptoms of depression, your thinking is actually slower, your reaction time's slower, you've got a lower frustration tolerance. Something might happen and then you become angry or you just don't think properly and then that's when accidents happen.

Sarah McLean:

So, I think looking after that enjoyment aspect of the farm is really, really important for safety. Most people just don't think about mental health and safety the same. They go, "Well, there's issues with mental health and there's issues with farm safety." But really the two are so intimately interconnected. So it really is about having, I guess, the mindset of the people in your farm in the right spot. And then I think you'd find that a lot of these accidents are avoidable or can be avoided.

Drew Radford:

Sarah, are there avenues that farmers should consider also about in terms of getting help for implementing further safety procedures on their properties?

Sarah McLean:

There's so many options that I can't really cover them all quickly, and it depends what you're looking for. So, obviously, if you're looking at infrastructure changes, there's all different industry specialists in that area. So, if you're looking at yards, you've got all your big companies that sell yard equipment and various products have various pros and cons. If you're looking at mental health, there's obviously lots of avenues for people to go and get help and usually starting with their GP to do that. So it really depends on what you want to do and having a think about it and having a plan. Like, for us, the dogs were sort of an obvious thing of, well, there's actually pretty inexpensive and once you do a few schools, you actually go, "Well, it's actually not that hard to train a dog." And it was something that I thought I'd never be good at, but if you get the right dog, they tend to read your mind anyway.

Sarah McLean:

So, I guess it's just looking on your farm and, whatever your budget constraint is, going, "Well, how is that spent?" Because I think about our farms, like we've got, I don't know, maybe four or five sets of cattle yards. For us to completely upgrade them to be state-of-the-art facilities where, say, we don't have to get in the yards with the cattle, the cost is completely prohibitive for us, and probably would be for most farmers when you think of the competing demands of finances and where else you can spend your money on a farm. And then you've got your tractors. You think, "Well, is everything guarded properly?" Say you've got a post driver. Well, the newer one's probably more safe than the old one, but can you afford to upgrade it?

Sarah McLean:

So it's really just about the farmer sitting down and having a bit of a plan and going, "Well, what can we do?" And some things don't even cost money that you can just do, like allowing yourself more time, working out where you're wasting time so then you've got more time to do some important things, and thinking outside the square and realizing that farm safety, if it's in the front of your mind all the time, you can do things a little bit safer, or a little bit slower, or a little bit more enjoyable.

Drew Radford:

Sarah, I really liked the fact that you keep on harking back to the point of enjoying your farm. That seems to be very central to all the work that you're doing and a great foundation for building safe practices around that. Sarah McLean, thank you very much for joining me in the AgVic Talk studio today.

Sarah McLean:

Thank you very much, Drew. It was a pleasure to speak with you again.

Speaker 1:

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Hello and welcome. ​

​I’m Mary-Anne Thomas – Minister for Agriculture. I’m excited to bring you season 2 of the AgVic Talk podcast series.

​Victoria’s farmers, agribusinesses and surrounding communities are an integral part of our way of life. They feed us, clothe us and export our products to the world. Agriculture creates essential jobs in our regions and supports the productive management of our landscapes. ​

​This season of the AgVic Talk podcast series will highlight personal stories of people who have overcome challenges they face every day. We will hear from rural women, young farmers, people from cultural and linguistically diverse backgrounds and agricultural communities, on how they recover, grow, modernise, protect, and promote Victorian agriculture. ​

​As outlined in our Agriculture strategy for Victoria, our government is committed to positioning the industry as a career of choice and build its reputation for workplace excellence. We will hear firsthand through this series how rural communities are preparing for the future and challenges of climate change, how young farmers are building careers in agriculture and the importance of safety on-farm. Through these stories we are shaping the story of the agriculture industry – one that is strong, innovative and sustainable.

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