Transcript of Doing Agriculture Differently – Experiences of First Nations farmers
Beth Jones:
All right. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Friday. I'm Beth Jones, the Chief Executive of Agriculture Victoria. And I'd like to begin today's barpangu yurpangu Speaker Session by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land that I join you from today, the lands of the Wadawurrung People, and I wish to acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands on which all of you are joining us from as well. I pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging, as well as to any Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander People who are joining us online. And our focus on this speaker series is just a really important reminder of the important role that we play in Agriculture Victoria in supporting self-determination outcomes through our work.
Pleased to be here once again for our fifth event in this series and this one's called Doing Agriculture Differently. The series has been a calendar of curated events that have been designed to build awareness of First Nations culture and community, First Nations experiences and thoughts on agriculture and self-determination.
And the series is part of Agriculture Victoria's barpangu yurpangu Self-Determination Action Plan which, of course, delivers on our responsibilities under DEECA's Pupangarli Marnmarnepu Self-Determination Strategy. And the series is really an opportunity for us, for staff, for industry, and community to engage in First Nations thought leadership and build awareness of different narratives and perspectives.
And it also creates a broader platform for First Nations people who engage in discussion and narratives on agriculture and self-determination. And a really big opportunity for us in AgVic to be learning and listening. So if you've missed any of the sessions in the past, we've got a dedicated website on our speaker series that has all of the previous speaker sessions that people can view at their leisure.
So today's focused on how First Nations people are doing agriculture differently and it's an opportunity to explore their journey, their experiences, the challenges, and the aspirations of that journey. And before I introduce you to the panel, I did want to let you know that we will have time for selected questions at the end of the panel so you can... And please feel free to add questions as we go in the Q&A Section of what's in front of you.
But let's get to it because I want to introduce today's really special guests and we're really, really grateful for them taking the time to share their stories and sit around in conversation with us this morning. Firstly, Josh Williams is a proud Ngarrindjeri and Narungga man who is a market gardener and co-owner of Tumpinyeri Growers near Daylesford in Central Victoria. So welcome, Josh.
And I'd also like to introduce Corey Robertson. Corey is a proud Kamilaroi man. CEO and founder of the Booma Food Group which operated out of the Hunter Valley in New South Wales. And welcome also to you, Corey. And I might start off our conversation this morning, Corey, with you by asking you a bit about your journey into agriculture and starting the Booma Food Group. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, what the group does, and how it came to be, the business that it is today?
Corey Robertson:
Yeah. Thank you, Beth, and thanks for everyone for being online today. I also pay more respects to our elders past, present, and emerging. I live one of rural country in the Hunter Valley but I'm coming from Bigambul Country up in Goondiwindi, Queensland this morning. So how I've got in agriculture, my hometown's and south of here, Moree, so the richest agricultural shire in Australia.
From there, I've went down to... So I get my Aboriginal heritage from mum's side of the family in Moree. My father's a white fella and he's from Cowra in between Dubbo and Tamworth. So there, grandfather had a family farm, et cetera. So farming's been in the blood for always, I guess, and my Aboriginal grandfather was their shearers.
So how we got in agriculture is we're born into it. And then I guess from their journey, I've actually had roles with Combined Rural Traders, a local bloke from CRT, become a national product manager manager for Australia's biggest fencing company, Waratah Fencing, back in the old BHP Steel and One Steel days. And then from there, I've gone into have civil construction companies. I've been in mining.
I have come full circle back to agriculture and Booma was born because there's a real need for Aboriginal participation in agriculture. I think CSIRO mentioned from a national perspective... Excuse me. I've got a bit of a cold. I'm going to cough. That we have a 1.8% Aboriginal participation in agriculture in Australia. Quite clearly, that's not good enough.
And yeah, so we've... The understanding in terms of growing up around agriculture being in the supply chains, we sought out technology that could help us enter a team in the competition, I guess. And then, be able to have an enterprise where we can control most elements. So vertical farming has been what we got into and we're off to the races.
Now, we're virtually looking at our first order to Woolworths after a long journey. Yeah. So we'll be supplying herbs in the first instance. But yeah, we can grow herbs, microgreens, lettuce, and we do a lot of seedling propagation. So we're really looking forward for our continued work with CSIRO and Newcastle University on more salt tolerant varieties to go into land region rehabilitation.
Because as the crow flies from our location in the Hunter Valley, we're only about 30 kilometres away from the start of all those open cap mines which have about 55,000 hectares and growing that need to be rehabilitated. So if we can be involved with that and work with our local traditional owners there in terms of involved in returning that land back to the same way, but if not better.
There's a real role to play for mob in terms of that regeneration piece because a lot of that opportunity had been lost in the past in terms of non-participation in the mining game. And I think if we can have that last touch and return that land back to the way that it was, if not better, I think that'd be a nice little way to get our mobs involved. So that's a bit of a snippet in terms of what we're doing.
Beth Jones:
Great. Thank you very much, Corey. And just in terms of what... Maybe just a bit more about the process in terms of the process that you went through in terms of starting the business in agriculture. Do you mind elaborating on that a little bit more?
Corey Robertson:
Yeah. I work from the market back. You work from the market back. It doesn't matter what product you sell or service you sell, you've virtually got a product and service that the market wants. So really, the market's been after more ESG-aligned produce, the market's after more clean green produce, and the market's also saying that they want to have more sustainability known in terms of how that product ended up on their plate.
So doing that, working from the market back, that's where we really found the technology and going... There was four trips to China, three trips to Canada, and we've landed on the technology of Cubic Farms. And yeah, we can use it. It's user-friendly and the key thing we know that we can use that in another scale, aspirations across our great land.
So that's why I'm up here in Queensland today. There's a really progressive organisation that they like us, we like them. I want this technology to stay in Aboriginal hands and really take our place in modern agriculture. And use the ESG principles of the framework that we can meet in spades and walk the talk on that because there's a lot of talk on ESG and a lot of greenwashing as they say. We can walk the talk.
Our facility is zero carbon. We're off grid. We've got an 800 kilowatts solar system with a 2 megawatt battery. Use 95% less water. Have a circular economy involved in our operation in terms of using our wastewater for irrigating our pastures on our farm. So we've got 12 acres. Not big, but we can go and do massive outputs using our Cubic Farm technology so that's been part of the journey.
Beth Jones:
Great, Corey. And you talked about sort of working backwards from what the market wanted in thinking about your business proposition, just interested in whether there were any other factors that made you choose sort of an agtech approach. And did you have a background in that area or it was learning more about agtech sort of a steep learning curve or where did you go with that?
Corey Robertson:
Probably inquisitive mind and eyes wide open, ears open as well. I'll be a little bit rude and crude on this, if that's okay. I think the main reason why I looked at agtech as the option is traditional farming is too risky for new entrants. You need big balls and you need big bank accounts.
Beth Jones:
Yeah.
Corey Robertson:
That's the rude and crude bit, right? And it's too risky. Climate change, climate cycle, it doesn't matter what your thoughts are there and what paddock of thoughts you're in on that, something is changing. So we've got to look at a more risk-managed, resilient approach to climate. And I think in any business, but especially farming, if you're not applying risk management factors on climate in your business, I think you're going to get hurt down the track, right?
So that's been a big reason why we looked at the technology on vertical farms. But also, true in terms... My culture, my heritage, and what drives us is intensive farming creates precious jobs. And in rural settings, it might be the key thing that keeps the town going or a teacher at a school or a school bus run going, et cetera. So I love the intensification because you get massive volumes.
I love the fact that agtech has all the green credentials on... For us, it's 95% less water, no pesticides, no herbicides, no pollutants in terms of outside environmental pollutants. We can't be classified as organic because we're not growing in soil. We're growing substrates. But based on that, those credentials, all year round growing, Aboriginal business, the training academy are attached, I think we're better than organic. So we're probably looking at a new category that... We are looking at called more organic.
Beth Jones:
Yeah. Yep, yep. Thanks, Corey. Excellent. And you're right, such a dynamic space to be working in. I got to keep pace with that, let alone what markets want.
Corey Robertson:
Yeah.
Beth Jones:
Josh, if I can go to you now. Keen to also just hear a little bit more about your journey into agriculture and what you are doing at Tumpinyeri Growers. Can you tell us a bit about your approach to growing your food and farming business? How do you think about it?
Josh Williams:
Sure. Yeah. So maybe a bit of a how-to situation. Land access, as we all know, is pretty challenging for everyone. Let alone First Nations folk in this country. So that was the first barrier for me growing up in farming communities and always the kind of bush at my back. I wanted to get back into the country after my 20s of exploration and adventuring abroad and seeing how other cultures go about... Not just producing food but actually participating in culture.
So that, for me, was a lot of, "All right. Well, I've come from these farming communities. I've moved into the city in my 20s. I've done a lot of travel. I've seen these other cultures. I want to get back out of the city and onto the land and make a living off of the land. But how do I access land? How do I build a farming business?"
And then, like Corey finding out about that 1%, 2% First Nations participation in the bushfoods industry, that was a big driving factor for me in my late 20s was, "Okay. Well, there's this industry, there's not much representation. I've got some skills in horticulture and landscaping. And starting to come to grips with my cultural identity and what it means to practise culture in every day." And that, for me...
I was trying to put all these pieces of the puzzle together and land sharing, for me, was kind of the only option. It was either stick at the landscape construction and design business in Melbourne for another couple of decades to save the money to find the land. And then, probably not even have enough to have a house on that. But yeah, the key for me was seeing these other ways that the Europeans and South Americans and Southeast Asians would do these collaborative farming models.
It was very communal-based. It was very culturally sensitive. They would include their traditional practices and knowledge in their day-to-day. And that, for me, just seemed like something Australia was really missing. And then, learning more about the food system and how we go about treating the land and the amount of degradation that conventional agriculture and monocrop farming and commodity markets dictate that you have to do this to earn a dollar.
So all these kind of factors for me played a role in getting to the place where I'm at now. And that is finding a piece of land with people that have been stewarding it in a way that I agree with. Using beyond the organic methods and beyond that regenerative farming model. Even in the way that we kind of coin it as this agroecological farming and that is the all-encompassing model.
So yeah, there's a lot in that we can pick apart. But the land sharing, for me, has made it possible and I've been through a few iterations of that now. One more transactional, paying a rent, and the one that we have now which seems more aligning, which is more based on reciprocity through a labour exchange.
Beth Jones:
Yeah. Thanks, Josh. And as you say, there's a fair bit to pick apart in what you've just talked about. And as we go on in the conversation this morning, hoping we can touch on a few themes that you've talked about there, including land access. But from what you said and what I understand, it sounds like it's a very community-orientated agriculture model. And what are the ways in which you create and contribute to the communities you intersect with? What's the operational model? How is food distributed? Can you talk to us more about how that interfaces in terms of community?
Josh Williams:
Sure. Yep. So we have the on-farm community that is Tumpinyeri Growers. It's me and my business partner. And then, it's Jonai Farm which is Tammy and Stuart Jonas and they run a pork and beef operation. They have an on-site boning room and they're in the process of building a micro abattoir on the farm.
So these guys, as livestock farmers, they have a surplus of nutrients in manures and waste from the boning room which we turn into all manner of fertility for the market garden and market gardening that is growing vegetables, seasonal vegetables all year round. It's a hungry beast, so it requires a lot of fertility. So we are closing these cycles on farm. So that's the kind of two businesses that run on farm.
So Jonai run their business and they have a CSA model that is a community-supported agricultural model, which is basically a membership to the farm. So they have roughly 80 members locally and some in Melbourne that they do X amount of meat per month. So they have a degrowth system. They know they're holding capacity of their livestock and they know what they need to rest and rotate.
So learning about this in 2020, I did an internship at Jonai actually because I was looking for like-minded farmers, those that were doing it in ways that fitted with how I wanted to participate in agriculture. So learning from their model with the CSA and that they're not pushing their land, they are actually building soil. They're not just an extractive model, they're not beholden to the commodity market, and they control the means of production and distribution.
So for me, they do all the work themselves with a few community members on farm. So for me, that's how we wanted to model our business and the collaborative effort has been amazing. It's given us the time to design and build a market garden from scratch and not having that overhead of lease, the monetary portion of it has made it possible for us to set up. I was living on farm for the first year and my business partner and their partner live on farm.
So yeah, having this central community that runs their independent businesses, but we can help one another when times are needed. It's very reciprocal and relational. And that's a bit tricky for a lot of Australians to kind of wrap their head around but we've seen it for a very long time. And I think this kind of one old fella and a tractor style is an issue for many reasons. But bringing more people back on the land through businesses that can be collaborative, I think, is a really positive way forward to treat the land in a way that suits more First Nations principles.
Beth Jones:
Yeah. Really inspiring, Josh. And just maybe one last follow-up question to you before I open it up a little bit further as a panel discussion. And you finished by touching on First Nations principles and you talked about the importance of your culture and your cultural identity in thinking about your business. Just in terms of how you weave that in and how that's important to you, are there key factors that you consider mandatory in your business vision or operations in terms of the role of culture?
Josh Williams:
Well, sure. So every decision we make, basically, for me, I... Every Monday we have a meeting between Jonai, Tumpinyeri, the farm community. And the first question is what are the land's priorities? And for me, that kind of encompasses how we want to go about our businesses. We're not doing harm. We are actually adding to that.
So building biodiversity, we plant a plethora of trees and shrubs all year round and integrate that into the market garden. We have our biodiversity belts which is habitat for native flora and fauna and all the insects and bugs that come from that. So having this understanding of what the land needs first and foremost and that you are a steward of that, that, for me, is a cultural act in itself.
But from a more business perspective, I've actually been very reluctant to just jump on board and enter into the bush foods industry because I'm a Ngarrindjeri Narungga man as you mentioned earlier and I'm actually on Djadjawurrung Country and I had no ties or connections with Djaara when setting up this business. So it was a matter of building these relationships, seeing what crops, if any, in terms of crops terms. But plants that might be suitable to integrate into our market garden that we cannot just sell as a product, but actually share the story of that food.
So there's a lot of yams in Central Victoria that have potential to be shared the story of. And we're going through the process now of aligning with elders, local mob, bringing in young people, and saying, "Okay. Here's the staple food from Djadjawurrung Country that's been grown and cultivated for tens of thousands of years. How can we bring that traditional knowledge, traditional practices, and share that story through more typical vegetable growing business?", is the big question that I've been tackling with.
So incorporating more culture from a practical standpoint is something we are still aiming for. But it's about those relationships with local mob first before just coming in and saying, "Well, I know I can grow this crop and I'm just going to start doing it and jump in that way." So it's very much about making those relationships right.
Beth Jones:
Thanks, Josh. Thank you. And thanks to you and Corey for giving us a little bit more insight into how you think about and how you run and the origins of your business models and your business thinking. And just a reminder to the audience, if there's any questions people want to put in the chat, please put them in because I'm sort of now going to open up a bit of conversation, Corey and Josh, across both of you and throw a few questions out into the ether for you to pick up on.
And Josh, you talked quite a bit about this. But you've both worked to solve the challenge of land access to develop food enterprises and you've done it in different ways. And Josh, you particularly highlighted the challenge that that presents. And Corey, you spoke to that too. But if you were providing advice to other people looking at how they access land for agriculture, what are your learnings and what advice would you give and is there anything you would do differently based on the experiences that you had? For Corey or Josh, happy for either of you to jump in and have a crack at that question.
Corey Robertson:
Yeah. I'll have a crack. I guess the key thing in land is... Again, working from the market back, so where's your market going to be? We're all talking and need to start looking at food models and distribution points, et cetera. So we come at our location at Hunter Valley because, one, it's more affordable. Two, we have local knowledge and a local mob there. So most of my mob have moved down from up around the Moree area down to that one rural country now.
And the connectivity by way of distribution for road, rail, air freight, that type of stuff. So where we're situated is within two hours we can go and service majority of New South Wales population. Probably about 70% of it. So NSW, New South Wales' acronym is probably Newcastle, Sydney, and Wollongong. That's there where you're probably about 70% of our population in those regions and we can service that within two, two and a half hours of it.
But certainly within one hour, Newcastle and Central Coast. And then, down to Sydney in terms of some distribution centres within an hour and a half, hour and three quarters. So that was a big decision in terms of land, how we go... Went about that. And then, it was just using network in terms what you could get. So yeah, we've got a vineyard operator, the Petersons family, I've done business with them over many years.
So leaned on them, understood what's available, and they said, "Well, maybe you should look at one of our blocks." So that's what happened. So you do things for a reason in terms of your work life. Sometimes you think, "Why am I doing this?" But 10 years down the track it pops up and say, "Well, that's why I did do that."
But outside that too, it's trying to work with your local land councils and Aboriginal organisations that are trying to do the right thing. And in most cases, they might have land or have access to land. But like a lot of farmers in the mainstream area as well, they might have that but they don't have the capital or the revenue income streams that will be able to put a new enterprise onto that land and get it activated up and going.
So yeah, so it's a bit of mix in terms of Acadium and working with government too. With government land, it could be repurposed, retrofitted, et cetera. So from a vertical farming point of view, we're probably opposite what Josh is doing... And well done on what you're doing, bud. It's very inspirational. We're taking the other tactic. He's looking after mother nature by using soil, et cetera, and herb.
I'm trying to take the pressure off her from other mainstream agricultural that's put her in this situation. So vertical farming is not the be all end all. It's a key area going forward. It has a role to play to make sure we've got that continual supply, that sovereign capability. But outside of that, limit the amount of imports that come into our country on food and it's not necessary.
And I think, for whatever reason, whether supermarkets have created it... And Josh, your business is seasonal. We ate seasonally in terms of certain vegetables. Fruit and vegetables come that time of year. But for some reason, I suppose it's like, I'll pick up the phone here, you need instant gratification and be able to access it now. This all year round access to certain food types, it's obviously being created by the supermarkets. But the supermarkets are saying they're responding to the market needs. So obviously, our consumers are demanding all year round now too.
So yeah, I hope... That's probably long-winded in answering that. But a couple of key things there is your network, Aboriginal land councils, et cetera. How you can help assist them, do the good work they are doing, and activate some enterprise. And then, third piece is government have a role to play and there's assets sitting there that may not be appropriate anymore. They might need to be repurposed or retrofitted to help solve or be part of a solution, solve a problem.
Beth Jones:
Yep. Great. Thanks, Corey. Some really practical ways of running that out too. But Josh, over to you, your perspective on your land access and land journey.
Josh Williams:
Sure. Yeah. I suppose seeing other small scale farms abroad gave me the idea and just thinking about, "Okay. Well, if you're not born into generational wealth or farming but you want to participate in the food system mobile or satellites, how do you go about it?" And that one for me was, yeah, seeing other ways that people were doing it on smaller lots with many people producing high yields and viable businesses.
So it is tricky, but we're building networks currently as well. So I'm aligned with the Australian Food Sovereignty Alliance and they have a branch of their organisation which is called Farming On Other People's Land, so FOOPL for short. And that, basically, is an endeavour to try to connect landholders with those that are seeking to set up land farming businesses or perhaps integrate or help out ageing farmers in their businesses and transitioning in that successional space.
So there is a huge amount of land out there, it's just a matter of linking people together with the right relations. So that's a major part of it for me is building that relationship. And I suppose doing an internship is what I did which, again, is quite odd for many Australians to wrap their head around is to actually go and learn hands-on. For free in a sense, but you do an exchange for labour for knowledge. And the networks and resources you can gain from that, I think, are amazing if you find the right people.
So just trying to put them dots together for me was a journey and there wasn't much of a blueprint to follow in this country. But I think we could be building that much better. And I think there are ways to marry those ageing farming populations with the next generation of farmers that maybe don't have the same chances that that generation did with land and capital and housing and all the other things that the younger folk and First Nations people face today. So yeah, that seems to link them up. It seems like we could be doing better, I think.
Beth Jones:
Great. Thanks, Josh. And you've provided a really good segue into the next question I was going to ask you in that. When we talk about the panel discussion days broadly about doing agriculture differently. And I was just interested in a little bit more insights from both of you on, what is it about your business that contributes to a different way of doing agriculture and why is that important to you and to community and more broadly do you think? Maybe, Josh, are you happy for me to start with you on that one?
Josh Williams:
Sure. Yeah. So selling direct into the local community, I think, is a great way not only to build community, sense of place, and that connection, but sense of connection to country and culture as well can be a major part of that. So yeah, we've managed to do that with these membership styles. So the CSA model, which was a term that was come up with in Japan in the '80s, I think.
Where it was kind of the farmer instead of taking all the risk, shares that risk with the community. So people back the farmer for that season to grow food for the village. So you share in the risk but you also share in the reward. So for us, we do our veggie box membership style. We have people come on board at the start of the season. And if they can pay upfront, amazing. If not, if it's instalments, so be it.
But it's just a matter of building that relationship with the eater and the eater starting to learn who the grower is. So that, for me, is a major way that we can kind of bridge the gap of connecting people to the food system more and that stewardship. And then, you're kind of beholden to your community on how you're treating the land and how you're providing food for the community. So I really enjoy that aspect of being the grower for the community and caring for country at the same time has been a major part of my journey.
Beth Jones:
Thanks. Thanks, Josh. I'm getting quite a bit of feedback that people really are enjoying the conversation. So Josh... Corey, I might go to you just on just doing it differently and why that's important from your perspective.
Corey Robertson:
I think doing it differently, for me, is virtually trying to set up our food systems in regional hubs and then being able to spoke that out from there. So if I had a Josh in my backyard, I could potentially be sending him seedlings more reliably quickly and get him off to a start. And certain things, if he might need that.
A hub and spoke approach for us is we could make some of these small little village communities famous for something in terms of growing watermelons or whatever that may be in terms of the seed and seedlings because we can't grow everything in our Cubic Farm, vertical farm environment. Our seed germination propagation machine can do any plant matter more reliably and more consistently.
So hence the reason why we've got a relationship with CSIRO and universities to understand how we can be a part of a solution there in terms of make sure that we've got the ability for people to have that feedstock to be able to grow it in paddock or in other protective cropping systems such as greenhouses, glasshouses. And the way we're doing it differently is also making sure that this chase to net zero...
We're a net zero hero in terms of showcasing that we're using renewable energy to go and drive this business. It has really good output in terms one of our containers will knock out 22,000 plugs of herbs every 30 days. Fully done. Lettuce every 36 days. Microgreens, which we want to get more of that into to our family diets, not just at food service where they're either used as a garnish and then used as a bit of a taste profile piece. But microgreens now, they can taste like carrots, broccoli, mustards, wasabis, 40% more nutritional value and use that as a flavour profile as opposed to gravies and sauces. There's a better health outcome too, right?
If you create that demand then we can back that up because it's a seven-day crop. So food service and supermarkets hate creating demand and not being able to supply it, then that's why there should be more Indigenous herbs and more Indigenous produce on the supermarket shelves. But they can't be there because they're not backing up that demand.
Hence, the reason why we've chosen microgreens as a way to do that. So doing it that way, but it also... How we also do things differently is every business we've created, and this included for Booma Food, is we have a training academy for our own staff, but also for our local community. So the amount of kids that we've had on school tours looking at STEM has been very encouraging.
A lot of female Aboriginal girls are coming through into that environment for the tours, which is highly encouraging. Because our daughter, Jazz, she's our succession plan. So she's our resourcing manager, so she is learning every aspect of the business to take it over one day. And so, it's not for her but it's for her kids down the track as well, right? And doing it differently is giving the training programs some units of competency and different qualifications, so we can get mobs some qualifications so we get them above award wage.
When we get people above award wage, whether they're Black, white, or red or male or female, above award wage, that's when you start closing that poverty gap. So that's very important to us. And yeah, we've actually done some incarceration programs as well with our sister company, Acadium.
It's our education training company that's giving those males and females avenues and pathways to go into agriculture. Because agriculture, manufacturing, and construction seem to be more forgiving to give people their first or their second chance. And that's how we started to do it differently. And we're also showcasing that to our youth, this ag game now is sexy. It's got tech. It's got variety. It's got all these different aspects. It's funky, right?
So if we can't go and create an environment for someone to come and be involved in ag, we'll lose them to another industry. And certainly with our youth these days, if it's not... Has these three... You need to have all these three things. If you've only got one, you don't have someone in your work ecosystem for a long term. It's got to be fun, it's got to have an impact, and it's got to have purpose.
You give that to our youth today who probably are the most caring generation about our environment and sustainability, you give that, they're tapped in for good. You only give them one element of that, they're looking for something else. So that's how we're doing it differently in our end. But the key thing is also doing it differently that in some regional settings where the harshness of the sun, you're flat out running goats or goannas in some of those locations because it's so dry and it's so harsh.
Well, we can redefine in terms of use that energy, harvest that resource, convert it to power, energise our enterprises, and take the farm to the barn. And then, have an opportunity where our mob who are deeply rooted in those reasonable towns but certainly remote towns, they don't want to leave it if they don't have to. A lot of them are forced to because there's no commerce here in town.
So we can really redefine, in my opinion, remote agriculture and have our mob lead that way. So rather than try and shut towns down, how do we empower them with the right resources and enterprises and education and training? But the total ecosystem that allows them to be able to go from survive to thrive and have people playing their part in their community. And you start doing elements of what Josh is doing as a bit of a benchmark, well, wow. If you can access tech and you can access some principles like Josh does in his business, you start to get some community vibrance pretty quickly.
Beth Jones:
I love the vision you're presenting there, Corey, and the two of you just in the way you're thinking about this. And at that system level, there's some... Just in that short time there, Corey, the number of opportunities that you just pointed to. Pretty incredible. And I guess touching on that sort of system view, maybe the next questions from our audience and who...
This is from Kate who's just really thanking you both for the discussion and really enjoying it, "Keen to see how you think we could help to facilitate the sharing of First Peoples' land stewardship and land management expertise with other farmers." How do we share that and the power of the vision and the opportunities that you talked about there, Corey? How do we open up those conversations and create the learning across other farmers?
Corey Robertson:
I think, first and foremost... Unfortunately, there's still a racism element there and I guess the elephant in the room in agriculture where it's a bit tough. But on the other side of tough discussions is there's some really good outcomes. The elephant in the room is economic wellbeing of our mob was taken away, right? Captain Cook come out and looked and he lied. There was people here. So not going to go into that.
But the key thing is you take that economic wellbeing away in terms of land, if you took it away from farmers and agriculture now, they'd be screaming, right? So first and foremost, how do we come to the table together in terms of learn, in terms of current status on agriculture, whether you're in horticulture, agriculture, aquaculture, whatever that may look. And who's doing it really well? What's the benchmark?
If we know the benchmark, and then we can also understand, "Okay. Some First Nations principles about..." Cultural burning is so significant now that, wow, it should be more of that. If people listen more, then more of that would be done. It does have a benefit, an outcome. And obviously, water conservation a whole lot. So won't go too deep in that.
But I guess the key thing is it's a bit like music. If we're playing the piano, when you hit the black and the white keys, the music sounds better. You've only hit one key, it's out of tune, right? So we've got to come together and we've got to share ideas and knowledge. Don't be scared of it and showcase that... Like sport, in agriculture, you involve our mob and teachers properly and we can share some stuff that people may have not have known from a cultural point of view as well.
But if you start embracing and educating and sharing like we do in sport, look at the most highly contested team sports right now which has all the major TV ratings in terms of NRL and AFL, who's the top players? So if you bring us along for the ride there too and we can be educated in terms of agriculture, in terms of systems and know-how and can-do and benchmarks, give us the scoreboard and we'll have a crack at trying to be the same, if not better. And a rising tide will lift all boats on that stuff.
So got to come together to share, got to come together and understand that we've got a lot of our mob sitting on the bench not working or don't think they've got pathways in. And we still rely on backpackers and visa holders. And good for them but the key thing is we've got to get outside our comfort zone and we've got to go and do this differently. You got to take the game with the people.
And again, sport's a great teacher. I'm a rugby league man from New South Wales. Like AFL, they infiltrated Sydney and New South Wales and they've done such a great job, right? And they did that because they started... They were committed and they were invested in it. You can get an Auskick Program in a school in six weeks, that means AFL invested in it. You can't get an ARL one or a soccer one within six months plus. So they are truly invested to teach people about the game and win their hearts and mind early.
And we've got to get to kids early so they start to understand there is pathways to that game. Well, we've got to do the same way for pathways into local industries in a rural regional setting and a remote setting. It's all around primary production and the number one gold metal industry that is in primary reduction is agriculture. So how are we going to showcase pathways for our use to be involved so that we do have that sustainability coming forward?
Because it doesn't matter how good my tech is and you know how it can do and the like. If we don't have people there to help run it, we're bugging. So, for me, it's that sharing, coming together, and let's learn together, right? Don't be scared of it. Let's push each other. So it's a bit like tennis. Play someone that does the lollipop game, that's what you play.
But someone pushes you all around the court, you become a better player. So I think we just need to come together and don't be scared of each other. Let's come together in a way that... Let's make our industry, our agricultural game, more strong and robust but very appealing for our youth to be involved. Especially if they're living in regional and remote settings because it's front and centre.
Beth Jones:
Well said, Corey. And there's some sort of powerful sort of analogies you used there, particularly around the piano keys I think just to think about just the power of coming together and being in tune and on the same page. So Josh, is there anything you would add to that in terms of your perspective on how we can share expertise across farmers?
Josh Williams:
I think a major part of all mobs culture across Australia is that sharing of story and I think food is a story that hasn't been told very well in this country. So there's a huge opportunity there beyond just trying to put a dent in that 99% non-Indigenous business ownership of the bush foods industry. I think there needs to be a real look-at and understanding of what are the foods, who are the people that were traditionally cultivating these foods, and the stories that come with those foods.
For me, a big part of culture is food. If you ask an Italian, what's their culture? They'll speak about their food. Same for many other countries across the planet. It's based around food. Culture is food and it's something that has been looked over for too long in this country. And there's ways that we can bring that to the market. But more particularly, in what I'm trying to achieve, is your local communities, to understand what is in season, whether it's the [inaudible 00:44:55] bottles and the seeds that they bring, to the yams at a particular time of year, the fish that are breeding at this time of year.
Like, learn the local seasons, learn the local foods, and that is learning culture. And along with that comes this connection to country that, I think, a lot of people are lacking. So, for me, it's the stories that come with the food and the place and the people that I think could be done and told a lot better. And that's not to say that the mobs are not trying or willing, it's just a matter of, perhaps, having the space and place to share that in a manner that I think would be respectful so-
Beth Jones:
Yeah. Thanks, Josh. That's such a powerful opportunity for everyone. I love that. I'm going to go to... There's a couple of questions. I'm going to combine a few themes from questions for you here. So there's some of the audience looking at, any particular perspectives from yourselves or from culture around the use of agricultural chemicals to manage pest, plants diseases, and weeds, but also learnings that might be relevant in terms of traditional owners' approaches to animal welfare and husbandry? Just people keen to understand sharing of knowledge particularly around animal welfare and the management of pests and diseases in European agricultural systems. Just any perspectives on that. Maybe if I can start with you, Josh.
Josh Williams:
Yeah. Sure. I think the key that's missing in a lot of agricultural modern practices is soil health that's not talked about enough in conventional systems. And it's a bit of a pump it full of synthetics and then poison whatever you don't want model that is clearly against any form of First Nation stewardship of land. It's not a method of coming in and nuking the place and then trying to get the one thing that you want out of that.
I think there needs to be a better understanding of the biodiversity in your region and adding complexity, like what mob would've done, is building these systems that is not based on this reductionist mindset. It needs to be understanding, observing, being patient and that doesn't always fit in with running a conventional agricultural business. So there is a tension there that I feel models will have to change.
Regenerative ag has quite a big movement now and that has an understanding and focus on soil health. And I think you can go beyond that and add in what agroecological farming does. And that is the whole system beyond just the soil and the finances, but the community aspect of that. And then, you include culture and traditional practises and knowledge.
So there's a heap in there to unpack. But the basis for me, I think, that a lot of systems are missing is that diversity: diversity of people, diversity of soils, healthy soils, biologically rich soils. And we know how to do this. We just have probably not implemented these practises well enough. It's all about yield over health and I think we're seeing the ramifications of that in our environment, in our people, in our waterways. It's pretty apparent that what we've been doing the last 50 years in this industrial system is quite opposite of how, I think, most First Nations people across the globe would treat land.
Beth Jones:
Yeah. Thanks, Josh, and back to that balancing system and... Thank you. I'm conscious of time but I've got more questions. We've got time to answer, Josh and Corey, so you've got a really interested audience who've got a range of questions for you. But maybe if I could take one more just for you, Corey, and then we might need to wrap up. But Corey, there's a few people interested in just your experiences in... And whether there's any images you can share to explain or describe your vertical growing practises. I think people are just trying to get their head around how that system works a bit more.
Corey Robertson:
Okay. I'll try and share the screen there.
Beth Jones:
Right.
Corey Robertson:
Just sent a request there. Liz will probably pick that up.
Beth Jones:
Liz, are you there? Are we able to-
Liz:
Yes.
Beth Jones:
Is that going to be an easy thing to do? I'm conscious of time but yeah.
Liz:
I've just allowed-
Beth Jones:
All right. Cool.
Liz:
There we go.
Beth Jones:
Thanks, Liz.
Corey Robertson:
So there's the containers and they have trays. If I can-
Beth Jones:
Yep. Oh, great.
Corey Robertson:
Yeah. That's the piece. This might show a video. This is an old one so it's got solar panels on the roof now, 400 kilowatts there. This is inside the facility. So trays with lights. So we've got crop motion in our systems where our trays move.
Beth Jones:
Yeah. Right.
Corey Robertson:
So these trays here, they go up and down, they go front to back, they get subjected to the light. So we've got a nice mix of blue and red light which gives that crimson colour which mimics nature for photosynthesis. And then, every two and a half hours from front to back is like a rollercoaster. They go up and down and they get a drink of water. And in the trays, you can't see it here, but we actually have a nozzle that puts our nutrient in the tray. So the only thing that gets wet in our systems is the roots. Therefore, no spraying or no misting. Therefore, there's no leaf burn, tip burn, or shrinkage and that's where we're getting our green credentials also 95% less water. So hopefully, that may show-
Beth Jones:
Thanks, Corey. I think that's really helpful.
Corey Robertson:
.... that's [inaudible 00:51:42] there so that's some of the produce-
Beth Jones:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Very impressive. Thanks, Corey. And maybe I can just get... We haven't got a lot of time but maybe I'll just get... And this is a big question and I appreciate. But maybe the last one just to touch on and I think, Josh, you kind of went there in some of your discussion at one stage. But I've got Theo who's really observing the reliance on the four season model we've brought from the Northern Hemisphere and the white system of thinking about ag. Do you think the great awareness of locally recognised seasons from local mobs could assist with some of the climate issues we are seeing in the system? Maybe Josh and Corey, just grab your thoughts on that before we close.
Josh Williams:
I think it's good to learn regardless. But yeah, I think it's never a bad thing to glean a bit of that traditional knowledge, whether it's around climatic events or patterns that have been understood for tens of thousands of years. And this kind of four seasons calendar that we've incorporated doesn't really fit. Particularly here in Central Victoria, there's six seasons and we transition through them based on cues of nature. And that seems more apparent and probably applicable for farming. And farmers tend to do that anyway. I don't think they sit by the January four season calendar. They do take their cues from nature, for the most part. But yeah, there can always be more learnings and observations that would definitely aid in a change in climate going forward because it is about the natural cues more so than the calendar.
Beth Jones:
Thanks, Josh. Corey?
Corey Robertson:
I might get the context right here. But for me, it's about all year round growing system. It's just taking that pressure off natural resources, right? We're using less of them and it is listening to Mother Nature, right? She is cranky right now. One end of the country would be on fire, the other end of the country is flooded. We've got all that happening.
I guess the key thing here is, as I said amongst the discussion is, as a farmer and as a business person, you need to be climate resilient. So you just need to make sure that you're keeping an eye on and you're really understanding the pulse of how Mother Nature is acting right now. So hopefully, we get some more integrity in the [inaudible 00:54:02] bomb in terms of the weather bureau, which helps with some of that forecasting.
But outside that, it's like you do. You've got to keep your finger on the pulse and eyes and ears open and understand what's happening and go with your gut in terms of... It's constant monitoring, right? I'm lucky we've gone that way for the reasons I've told you, that we can go and control that seasonality with what we do.
But certainly, traditional farming in terms of the questions about chemical use just a while ago, it always boils down to volume issue. You use less chemicals and the like in smaller operations because it's controlled and it's more intensive. But there's bigger, broader [inaudible 00:54:48] stuff, you're always going to have that.
And I guess the key there is... Josh hit the nail on the head. It's all about soil health and making sure that soil health is right. But also, really looking at our use of water. It's a finite resource. And we've got to make sure that, one, when we do get these weather events, we're storing them and house it properly for a start as well. And I've been too greedy on that with some of these players out there taking more than what they should.
Beth Jones:
Corey and Josh, can I just thank you so much? Your stories and your insights and some of the ideas that you've put to us and provocations that you've put to us today have been really, really powerful. So I'm really grateful for you taking the time to share your stories, your perspectives, and your insights.
And I can see from the Q&A and the comments in the chat here that people have really, really appreciated the conversation this morning. And some really clear takeaways for us at a very basic level around just the importance of sharing stories and coming together and thinking about the diverse and exciting opportunity that agriculture is. And the more diverse it is, the more exciting it can be, I think. So can I just thank you both very much for your time this morning?
And Josh and Corey, I think, are very generously happy for people to reach out to them. I think Liz has put their business contact websites, et cetera in the chat there. So thank you very much, Corey and Josh, once again and thank you very much also to our audience today. And we have recorded this session and we will share that. I think we're very much interested, Josh and Corey, as how we keep this conversation going across our business. And then, through the work that we do in connecting people.
So I think the conversation we've had today has been just invaluable in us sort of thinking about some of the principles and perspectives of that. So I wish you both well in your continued business endeavours. Grateful for your time today. And yeah, look forward to catching up with you another time. But have a good day, everyone, and thank you.
Corey Robertson:
Thanks, everyone.
Josh Williams:
Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.
Corey Robertson:
Thank you.